Ceiling rose too many wires?

[Iggifer]

Hahah that'll teach me for being awake so late!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I think this situation can be firmly placed under the heading of "schoolboy error!".
When dealing with situations like this and when you are obviously not electrically savvy, take a note, draw a labelled diagram, take pictures and label conductors.
The requirements as it stands now are to employ someone skilled to rectify the problem or some crash course learning and purchasing/hire/lend of test equipment. I know what my option would be, if those shoes were mine!
There is very little anyone here can help, other than guessing! And the OP is the star witness regrettably, not a very observant one! (no disrespect)

 

[Willemorley]

None taken. I build laptops and computers regularly. And I have change a few switches before so I have had a bit of experience with electronics. I know its not the same thing but I thought it would just be a case of attaching the blue and brown from the ceiling rose.

The black fixture and all of the other cables were already in place. I can only assume that the light was always on or both were on.

 

[Willemorley]

To give you a better idea. This is what I had on the ceiling when I moved in.

http://s1.postimg.org/5r590tguz/image.jpg

I found it online whilst searching for a solution.

At present I haven't moved any wires. I am just wondering why one light stays on all the time but both go on when I flick the switche.

 

[Iggifer]

Because you have the feed to the second light into the permanent loop. It is just a case of swapping one cable to get it to switch with the switch, but without a multimeter it's entirely guess work.

And that's not your only issue

 

[Willemorley]

So I need to move one of the red lives to the switch live? I'm getting a multimeter on the way back from work so I can take a look then.

From what I can see the wires are all too short and there is no give in the ceiling so I'm tempted to attach them all to a terminal block and push it behind the fitting.

What are the other issues?

 

[DaveHerns]

You'd need a maintenance free junction box rather than a terminal block but until you sort out what wire goes where it's academic. You've only got a wire or 2 mixed up so I can't see you haven't got enough slack to reconnect.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

To give you a better idea. This is what I had on the ceiling when I moved in.

http://s1.postimg.org/5r590tguz/image.jpg

1. But that's a ceiling rose and you said

   I tried replacing a ceiling rose in my new house.

   their wasn't a ceiling rose when I moved in.

2. What you have now is not what the diagram shows, so either you never had that, or you did not replicate it properly.
3. The diagram shows the blue core of the RYB cable being used as a neutral, so it can't be going to a switch. It's what you'd expect to see supplying a bathroom fan.
4. I think it's time to get an electrician.

 

[stem]

Based on your photo of the wires at the ceiling rose, and your description of how it functions, it could be wired like this:



As you haven't given the switch information as requested previously by iggifer, I have have had to ignore the second switch for now, but it may well be relevant. This drawing also assumes that the cables shown in your photograph entering the ceiling rose left to right are:

1. L&N to/from supply
2. L&N to/from supply
3. L&N to second light fitting
4. Switch wires

If so, here's what would happen.

With the switch in position 1, lamp 1 is connected across live and neutral and is lit, whilst lamp 2 has a live applied to both sides and so is off.

When the switch is moved to position 2 it removes the switched live. At this point Lamps 1 and 2 are connected in series across the live and neutral thus sharing the voltage between them, and being dimly lit.

It may be simply that the wires to the second lamp are wrongly connected and just need changing as below. But this is only theory based on limited information lacking details of the rest of the circuit, so will need checking by someone competent and with knowledge of the entire circuit first. Also it is odd that two of the switch wires (Yellow, Blue) are connected to the same terminal at the ceiling rose, one may be disused as securespark suggested, if indeed they are the switch wires as we suppose.

 

[Willemorley]

Hi sorry I meant that there wasn't a light fitting attached to the ceiling rose. The photo I sent first was how it was when I moved in. I have now moved the wires in accordance to the image above.

But one light stays on all the time. The ryb cable is for a burglar alarm is believe after chasing he wires.

I called an electrician but he said it would cost £100 and he wouldn't be able to come until next week. I spoke to another who explained it isn't a big job at all.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

... it could be wired like this ... assumes ... If so ... It may be

Stem - please don't do that - electrical-installation-by-guesswork is a stupid thing to do.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi sorry I meant that there wasn't a light fitting attached to the ceiling rose.

But you only had to connect 2 or 3 conductors from the light to the rose - you didn't need to fiddle with the fixed wiring at all.

The ryb cable is for a burglar alarm is believe after chasing he wires.

Why would a burglar alarm need a switched live from a light?

I spoke to another who explained it isn't a big job at all.

It isn't, for someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[stem]

... it could be wired like this ... assumes ... If so ... It may be

Stem - please don't do that - electrical-installation-by-guesswork is a stupid thing to do.

Agreed, that's why I said
"But this is only theory based on limited information lacking details of the rest of the circuit, so will need checking by someone competent and with knowledge of the entire circuit first"

 

[bernardgreen]

It looks like two way switching was attempted ( 3 core and Earth cable ) with junctions at the ceiling rose. That is possible but requires one extra terminal in the ceiling rose. ( 4 instead of the present 3 )

 

[Willemorley]

Could it be achieved by using a terminal block instead? If it's a case of there not being enough terminals in the existing rose?