Ceiling rose too many wires?

[Willemorley]

Hi guys,

I tried replacing a ceiling rose in my new house. I have 2 in the living room that are either both on or off. And I have 2 switches at either end of the room.

After changing the fitting, one light always stays on and if I flick a switch, both lights come on but are dimmer.

I have 4 wires in the ceiling rose:

Wire 1: 1 black 1 red 1 ground
Wire 2: 1 black 1 red 1 ground
Wire 3: 1 black 1 red 1 ground
Wire 4: 1 blue 1 yellow 1 red 1 ground

Anyone have any idea why one stays on all the time?

I have attached photos. Hopefully somebody can shed some light - excuse the pun.

 

[Iggifer]

Is the photo a before or after photo?

If one light stays on all the time you have connected what should be a switched live into the permanent live (loop) terminal

 

[Willemorley]

The photo is after.

So shall I move one of the live wires into the switch terminal?

Hopefully that should allow them to both be off or on?

 

[DaveHerns]

What was there before ? You don't seem to have all the earth wires in the terminal , not that it will be the cause of your problem

 

[Willemorley]

Yes that is what it was like, I just change the blue and brown from the light as their wasn't a ceiling rose when I moved in. After turning the fuse on I noticed one light was always on and if I turned it off it turned both on but dimmer

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Living room lights, do/did they both switch on from the same switch originally?
And what electrics are in there, that is powered by the lighting circuit?

 

[Iggifer]

Unfortunately the only real way forward is to buy a multimeter and do some (basic) testing, or get a man in!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Unfortunately the only real way forward is to buy a multimeter and do some (basic) testing, or get a man in!

Possibly the best way forward would the the latter, as I doubt the OP would be able to use a multi-meter in a competent fashion.
Also to the OP it is CPC/earth in the UK, not ground

 

[Iggifer]

Possibly the best way forward would the the latter, as I doubt the OP would be able to use a multi-meter in a competent fashion

I tend to agree, but we could be surprised

 

[Willemorley]

The switches are connected via the red, blue, yellow and EARTH cables. One switch runs off the other.

Is it a case of moving switch live loop wires over to the live switch?

 

[Iggifer]

Some photos of behind the switches might help.

At the moment you seem to have two cables set up as a standard switch wire (live + switched live) the three core (yellow and black with an extra permanent live in the red) and the far right twin and earth.

As you haven't changed the switches (I assume) you don't need to change anything in there, but it may help us understand what's gone wrong

 

[securespark]

The possibilities are endless.

You could have a 3 core, as you suggest, terminating from the second switch into the rose. But you would expect another to the other switch.

Alternatively, the 3 core may be a switch cable with one switch wire disused.

There are several other possibilities besides.

Tell us how many cables and what core colours are present at:

The second rose.

Both switches.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes that is what it was like, I just change the blue and brown from the light as their wasn't a ceiling rose when I moved in.

So it wasn't like that before - you installed the rose. And unless the on-all-the-rime or both-on-but-dim was what it was doing before, you didn't copy how it was wired before.

The switches are connected via the red, blue, yellow and EARTH cables.

But that may have nothing to do with the RBY cable at the rose. There is one method of 2-way switching which takes 3C&E cables to the rose, but then there would be two of them and two of the conductors, usually the yellow ones, would not be connected to any of the terminals in the rose. With the usual method there's still a normal 2-core switch drop cable, and there's no way of telling from the wiring at the rose that there is 2-way switching.

As per what Iggifer said, basically you now have to follow Plan A or Plan B

PLAN A:

• Learn how lighting circuits are wired.
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting
    
  • http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=uk+lighting+wiring+(basics+OR+101)
    
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:books
    
  • //www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:index
• You'll probably need to get a multimeter and learn how to use it.
• Identify which conductors are which at the switches and the light positions.
• Check for circuit continuity, switches working etc.
• Connect everything up properly.

PLAN B:

• Get an electrician.

There are some irresponsible people here who will tell you that there is a Plan C, which is to start trying different things without really knowing what's going on, hoping to get it working by luck, or by blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why. Please don't listen to them - you must know what, and truly understand what, you are doing. Electrical-installation-by-guesswork is a foolish idea. There is no Plan C.

Is it a case of moving switch live loop wires over to the live switch?

That sounds suspiciously like a Plan C approach.

 

[Iggifer]

There is one method of 2-way switching which takes 3C&E cables to the rose, but then there would be two of them and two of the conductors, usually the yellow ones, would not be connected to any of the terminals in the rose

Surely this would require 2x3C+E at the rose and there (appears) to be only one

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is one method of 2-way switching which takes 3C&E cables to the rose, but then there would be two of them ...

Surely this would require 2x3C+E at the rose and there (appears) to be only one