Charging sealed lead acid batteries for more than 24 hours

JP_

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The company I work for sells electric mobility vehicles powered by lead acid batteries.
A customer asked if they can charge for more than 24 hours. The manual says no, 12 hours max.

But, why doesn't this rule apply to car batteries? OK, not often does somebody drive for 24 hours, but with shared driving it is possible. Are wet batteries better in this respect?

And, what is the main problem of charging for more than 24 hours? Is it just risk of overheating, or does it shorten the battery life?
 
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My intruder alarm panel has one of these in and it's connected to the charger 24/7.

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Perhaps the charger that comes with the mobility scooter charges at full pelt for a quick charge and doesn’t regulate itself? I have had the battery on my motorcycle on charge in my garage from October until April before now.
 
Could be that. I'm sure an engineer once told me some chargers cut out when the battery is full. Maybe some chargers are cheap and cheerful!
 
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It does seem poor design as anything could happen to such a user who needs one of these machines, instead of switching it off at the right time.
 
The method of charging depends on the use of the battery. The mobility scooter application is cyclic so the charge current is high and has to be time limited.

Where the battery is for standby use then the correct charge voltage can be applied continuously for an indefinite period of time. The battery regulates the near zero current when the battery is fully charged.

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Where the battery is for standby use then the correct charge voltage can be applied continuously for an indefinite period of time. The battery regulates the near zero current when the battery is fully charged.
Are you agreeing that the supplied charger in the OP's case is not good enough to do that.
 
When I put my battery charger on an energy meter I could see the charge rate
Car_battery_recharge.jpg
and you can see how it turns down in stages it actual starts at 3.8A, then 3A, then 0.8A then 0.1A and finally off, and most scooters have some form of switch mode stage charging, however not all things using lead acid look after the battery in that way, the stair lift had rather a high charge rate and relied on being used on a regular basis to stop over charging, the hedge cutter stated 16 hours only, the jump starting pack was similar to the Lidi battery charger shown and turned off the charger and to look at there is nothing on the charger to say if a stage charger, pulse charger or a charger with no control, the battery charger for my hedge cutter looked exactly the same as the jump starting pack.

The regulation can be in the charger or in the appliance, but if I found a mobility scooter said no more than 12 hours I would say it shows rather poor quality.

So it is all down to the charger, in the main mobility scooters are 24 volt so a replacement charger would be expensive, 12 volt chargers are cheap, 24 volt they are special so more expensive. I always thought my mothers scooter was silly as you could only charge the batteries on the scooter, so whole scooter had to go into house to charge, instead of leaving in the car and just bringing in the batteries.

But the scooter did have a stage charger, going out with mother I plugged charger into the 150 watt inverter that was plugged into cig lighter socket to keep the scooter fully charged when going on holiday, but after using the scooter the load was over 150 watt and tripped out the inverter, carrying the scooter in parts into the hotel room and reassembling it so I could charge batteries was not my idea of fun.

But unless the charger is a stage charger then the battery will dry out if left on charge and it will be useless. It's not the battery it is the charger.
 
I'm going with cheap charger with a manufacturer trying to make sure it lasts the warranty. And something to argue the warranty on for both charger and battery.

So nothing to do with functionality.
 
My TGA scooter instructions say to leave it on charge when not in use.
 
My TGA scooter instructions say to leave it on charge when not in use.
So does mine, and I think most do. My experiments with lead acid using a energy meter and smart charger showed a lead acid can take 3 weeks to fully charge once allowed to sulphate, the narrow boat people with continually cruising have a problem in that 6 hours cruising a day is not long enough to recharge the domestic batteries fully, and they go down bit by bit over the month, so they try to find some where to plug in once a month to fully recharge batteries or their life is seriously shortened. And even after 24 hours the batteries are still not full using a hydrometer to test, often takes 48 hours.

The longer the lead acid battery is left discharged the longer it takes to charge up again, so start a car and then use alternator and it charges quickly, but use a scooter and then leave it in the car over a weeks holiday, and not only has it discharged more fully than the car battery, but it has been left discharged for longer, so charge time is dictated by the battery, and how it has been used. But look at a 10 amp CTek MXS charger and looking at £135 they are not cheap, this one 10A 24V costs £145 so for cheaper items like as I said my hedge cutter to sell at around £50 for the lot, they used a very cheap and nasty charger with instructions only charge for 16 hours. Lidi did a 3.5 amp smart charger at around £14 think Aldi also did one, similar to the CTek but much cheaper, even had a volt meter built in, so clearly if sold in enough numbers cheap chargers can be made which can be left on 24/7 365 days a year, but most scooters use two batteries and are 24 volt not 12 volt, so getting a cheap off the shelve 24 volt smart charger is more of a challenge. However quick internet hunt and this one at £30 does not say if a smart charger, larger output models have the AH listed so would expect to find they are simply stage chargers not what we consider as a smart charger.

The stage charger has been around for years, milk floats, fork lifts etc have used them, but early models tended to boil the battery a little to ensure the battery was fully charged in 8 hours, and so batteries needed topping up. Latter versions used on narrow boats a lot, have just two stages in real terms but are called 3 stage.
1) Charges as max output, 2) charges at 14.4 or 14.8 volt to 12 volt battery, in real terms this is one stage depending if glass mat sealed or able to top up it charged to 14.4 or 14.8 volt until the current drops to a set amount.
3) When the current drops to set amount normally around 1/20th of AH ratting so with boat batteries normally around 3.5 amp, then the voltage is reduced to 13.4 volt.

There are two problems with this, one with boats the lights can draw over 3.5 amp so mooring up at canal side pub for night, the charger can fail to drop to float charge voltage, the second problem is 13.4 volt does not charge very much, cars use 13.8 volt as a compromise, so can take a few days to put last 10% of charge into the battery.

The pulse charge uses the voltage decay of the battery when taken off charge to work out state of charge, so two 70 amp alternators on the boat are kidded into charging flat out by reducing voltage to under 13.8 volt and the power from both is fed into a charger unit, that supplies a float charge of 13.8 to engine starting battery, and pulse charge to domestic batteries, this means draw from the domestic batteries does not cause over charging, and the three 160 Ah domestic batteries can be charged at full 140 amp after engine first started. The same method often used with solar chargers, it also means the voltage at the solar panel can match what is required to get max output from panel, but voltage to battery is still at 13.8/14.8 volt RMS again very complex chargers.

I would say a mobility scooter not using a stage or smart charger of some type is unusual and points to a very cheap and nasty product. But electric vehicles be it a push bike, scooter or wheel chair are expensive, reasonable electric assisted push bike around £1500, cheap ones start at around £500 and one with mid engine around £2000. Mobility scooters use cheaper batteries, so can be slightly less costly, and wheel chairs are low production quantity so expensive as a result unlikely to find one under £2000. The major problem with mobility scooters is very low resale value, one costing £2000 at 5 year old changes hands for £70, with new batteries around £60 each, and most need a pair, so second hand you can buy one with new batteries for £250 so there has been a move to produce new cheap enough to sell at a price where some one will buy new rather than second hand.

However my mother not light in error drove hers off a curb in error and it did not have any problems with the smaller lighter models however then tend to either turn over or break, not so much of a problem at 4 mph with some one who does not really need one, but with an amputee a much bigger problem.
 
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The company I work for sells electric mobility vehicles powered by lead acid batteries.
A customer asked if they can charge for more than 24 hours. The manual says no, 12 hours max.

But, why doesn't this rule apply to car batteries? OK, not often does somebody drive for 24 hours, but with shared driving it is possible. Are wet batteries better in this respect?

And, what is the main problem of charging for more than 24 hours? Is it just risk of overheating, or does it shorten the battery life?
If you supply details of the battery (manufacturer, and model number) and the same for the charger, you might get an objective answer
 

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