Cheap Chinese imported mains electric gadgets

[frank999]

Seems most folk these days are swimming around in a sea of cheap imported mains powered /plugable chinese electricals, often found plugged into rows of 4 way extensions

Should not electrical items that you plug in - conform to certain BS/EU standards, and be tested as such. What is the UK standard that such 'disposable tech' should be tested and certified to.

CE marking is one such, but now we are out the EU, what replaces it.
I have one or two cheap chinese electrical items that came direct from China myself - with the CE stamp on, but how do you know the CE marking is genuine.

I am soon to learn PAT testing, to test tenants personal electrical items, and am wondering if you are to be able to inform the tenant that the item does/does not conform to required standards.

I have bought some 'hot plug indicators' for any extension leads I find (I already check for diasy chaining and coiled extension leads), and wouldn't expect items such as these to not be to standard, but again should you be checking for CE marking or the like.

 

[JohnW2]

CE marking is one such, but now we are out the EU, what replaces it.

Since we left the EU, CE marking has been replaced with "UKCA" marking (which largely has the same meaning/implication) - but, inevitably, there is a 'transitional period' during which either will be accepted in the UK.

Of course, anyone manufacturing products in the UK which they want to be able to see in the EU will continue to have to be CE marked.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

It seems there is a new mark which will replace CE in the UK https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking , it seems though that for electrical equipment it will be self-certifiable in the same way CE was.

Also regular domestic plugs and sockets were never within the scope of CE marking (though wall-warts are considered electrical equipment an thus are).

Unfortunately there is no way to reliably and non-destructively tell the difference between a safe and an unsafe power supply. You can do insulation tests but they only go so far.

 

[frank999]

Hi John, until the transition period ends, I assume I will continue to see CE marked goods, could I assume then that electrical items missing this CE 'kite mark' are not tested to the required standard, could be a fire hazard and should be removed from use by tenants.

The .Gov link makes interesting reading, thanks.

Unfortunately there is no way to reliably and non-destructively tell the difference between a safe and an unsafe power supply
But a CE marked product (as opposed to one that has evaded the requirements of CE marking) could be assumed to be safer ? or at least one would hope so.

I think we have all seen examples of terrible fire hazards created by such cheap imports, there are several youtube video's out there to expose this.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, until the transition period ends, I assume I will continue to see CE marked goods, could I assume then that electrical items missing this CE 'kite mark' are not tested to the required standard, could be a fire hazard and should be removed from use by tenants.

I assume that we will always continue to see CE-marked goods, particularly those of Chinese original, since they will want to be able to sell them in the EU as well as the UK. When the transition periods ends, they will presumably have to bear both CE and UKCA marks if they are to be sold in both EU and UK.

CE-marking (and, I suspect, also UKCA marking, although I haven't looked into it) is essentially meaningless, particularly if it comes from an iffy country/manufacturer, since, as far as I am aware, it is entirely a 'self-declaration' system - i.e. a CE mark merely indicates that the manufacturer has 'declared' (truthfully or otherwise) that the product complies with allrelevant EU regulations.

But a CE marked product (as opposed to one that has evaded the requirements of CE marking) could be assumed to be safer ? or at least one would hope so.

See above. Ce marks don't really guarantee anything.

Kind Regards, John

 

[frank999]

CE-marking (and, I suspect, also UKCA marking, although I haven't looked into it) is essentially meaningless

So its a bit like Fire Doors, no one comes and inspects after installation (apart from the quartely inspections for the Log), the legal framework and penalties for non compliance are there to try ensure doors are fitted to the required standard in the first place. Yet we know councils that have failed to ensure compliance, and people have died, and gone to prison.

Wonder what the incidence of penalties from UK courts to Chinese Companies knowingly exporting non compliant electrical goods to the UK/EU are ? where there have sadly been cases of death or serious injury by consumers here in the UK.

 

[JohnW2]

Wonder what the incidence of penalties from UK courts to Chinese Companies knowingly exporting non compliant electrical goods to the UK/EU are ? where there have sadly been cases of death or serious injury by consumers here in the UK.

That's an interesting one. If such goods get into the UK and result in death or serious injury, then presumably at least some fingers will point at the 'Border Protection' authorities - since it is their job/duty to intercept such goods at the border and prevent them entering the UK!

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

Dodgy electrical goods do get into the UK, the authorities have nowhere near the resources to stop them, especially as there is really no way to tell if goods are dodgy without destructive testing (and even with destructive sample testing, dangerously poor quality assurance may be missed).

The EU system (I presume the post-brexit UK system is the same but I don't know for sure) considers the importer to be legally responsible for the goods they import. That works ok-ish for big companies who can be sued for vast amounts of money, but not so good for policing all the little guys.

 

[winston1]

There are fake CE marks about. Usually can tell as the C and E are too close together.

 

[JohnW2]

There are fake CE marks about. Usually can tell as the C and E are too close together.

There are - but, as I said, it doesn't really make much difference, since iffy manufacturers can put on a 'real' (appearance-wise) CE mark if they feel so inclined, regardless of what the product actually does (or does not) comply with.

 

[ericmark]

The CE or Chinese Export mark has always been a joke, however in the main I want stuff safe, but cheap, so if we look at these only the left one has a fuse, however used in a 4 way extension there is a fuse in the plug, it is only when fitted directly into the wall socket there is a problem with the centre one, one to right has no shutters, but I still use them at home, I have too many items with moulded two pin plugs, I just make sure only I use them.

The inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment (PAT testing) is clearly required for any items supplied by the Landlord. So we have

“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(2);

and

“consumer’s installation” means the electric lines situated upon the consumer’s side of the supply terminals together with any equipment permanently connected or intended to be permanently connected thereto on that side;

the landlord supplied equipment would normally be "permanently connected or intended to be permanently connected" i.e. you don't unplug after use, so the fridge, freezer, washing machine, tumble drier, oven, hob, extractor fans, immersion heater etc. These are not normally tested as part of an EICR, but do need testing to comply with new law, also the DNO equipment is normally inspected in an EICR but this is not part of the new law.

However there does not seem to be a provision for two independent inspectors to share the work,

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

so the person doing the PAT testing must also be qualified to do the EICR even if some one else is doing that part of the inspection.

But the big question is if you should be checking the tenants own equipment? I would say no, as it would be impossible to maintain the equipment register and know what was in the home. Or know the status of the tenants, if you visited my home your could not legally power up some of my equipment without an amateur radio licence, so you could not test all my equipment without one. The same applies to a lot more, you can't possibly be trained to work on all electrical equipment, there will always be some thing you have never seen.

Even some rather simple looking devices, cause one to ask questions, for example this may be safe used to switch on an outside light, but connected to a fire, so it can be switched on remotely, that is very different, and I would not want to put my name down to have tested it, as it could be very dangerous if used for wrong equipment.

But in the main we charge per item, and the cost to test every item in my house would be silly, and the Landlord is unlikely to want to pay to test anything which does not belong to him/her.

 

[plugwash]

The CE or Chinese Export mark has always been a joke, however in the main I want stuff safe, but cheap, so if we look at these View attachment 239053 View attachment 239054 only the left one has a fuse,

It looks to me like the middle one has a fuse carrier. You can't see the outline of the fuse carrier because it's the same color of the body, but the window in the middle and the screwdriver slot at the end are clearly visible.

 

[ericmark]

No there are all mine only shaver socket had a fuse, but use them in short extension leads so there is a fuse in the plug of extension lead.

However can't see any landlord paying to have tenants stuff PAT tested. I have questioned thinks like this in the past, the electrical safety council say its a fail, but to me nothing to do with inspection and testing when sockets are overloaded, this is the other one, I would unplug them all and then give them back to client, for them to bin, as to Europe adaptors this one seems about the best, fuse, and earth connection plus hold the plug firm, but I hated inspection and testing, my PAT testing machine would test the socket outlet first, and it had set times for all the tests, so it was really slow, but at time top of range Robin, trying to explain why it took so long was hard, when with a little cheating one could show 200 items a day, my tester lucky to get 50 items following the rules.

As a group we felt first test should be by an electrician and then could be re-tested by semi-skilled, as once one entered the plant number the tester would tell you what tests are required. The problem was correcting errors, if you forgot to log into the tester, it would test everything under the last users name, so I wrote a VB program to allow one to correct errors, however then it was found the foreman was using the program to falsify the records showing we had tested items we hadn't seen.

So no one would believe computer records any more, so all tests had to be printed out and signed. The point is 99 times out of 100 there was no fault, but if there was then you need to show it was not your fault, and when it does go wrong, we see things like the death of Emma Shaw lucky it is rare, but the HSE did work out that the electricians mate fudged up results, and blamed the foreman for using semi-skilled labour.