Circuit Breaker

[dannyboi2003]

Also one of the tails from the CU on the right seems to be going to a dead end next to the RCD, does the CU on the right actually do anything and if not why is the other tail going to the RCD?

You really need a pro to take a look at your installation because it really does look like its dangerous, i realise money is an issue but you cant cut any corners when it comes to electrics. If it were my home I'd get it sorted immediately. Having a PIR done would give you a good idea of what needs doing.

All the best
Dan

 

[JohnD]

I think I can see a cut-off tail half way up the LHS of the RCD. And it seems to have an Earth conductor going into it. With one supply tail going into the top but two coming out of the bottom.

Very odd.

Have these circuits worked recently?

Edited: dannyboi2003 seems to have got it right.

 

[RF Lighting]

As it looks to me, the live for the peak CU passes through the RCD. The neutral tail for the peak CU is connected directly to the meter.

The cut off tail appears to be the live for the (presumably now redundant) off peak supply.

The neutral for the off peak CU appears to be connected to the bottom of the RCD (at the right hand side), but nothing connected to the neutral terminal at the top.

I don't see how the RCD would have ever held in wired up like this.

 

[stevesey]

Hm - weird.

Whereabouts in Bristol are you, I'm in East Bristol and have Part P qualified friend who might be able to have a look at this for you. Know he's doing a Bathroom this week - but given the circumstances, if it's local he may be able to pop in.

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[bernardgreen]

There seems to be a cut tail next to the RCD, suggests one of the tails to one of the CUs is not connected.

 

[timetocallanexpert?]

You are totally right, it is TT, I think the cut tail is the neutral from the old storage heaters which are no longer in use. The CU on the left is the only one which is in use.

I guess I definitely need to replace the RCD and get the whole thing checked out. Is it a waste of time just to replace the RCD? Would it make more sense to get the whole CU upgraded?

I may have to perform some horrible favours for the bank manager next month but looks like this just isn't one I can do myself. Can you guys give me any idea what kind of cost I will be looking at for replacing either a) just the RCD b) upgrading the whole CU?

Thanks for all your help on this one, first time I have come across this forum and I'm really impressed.

 

[timetocallanexpert?]

Whereabouts in Bristol are you, I'm in East Bristol and have Part P qualified friend who might be able to have a look at this for you. Know he's doing a Bathroom this week - but given the circumstances, if it's local he may be able to pop in.

I'm just over the suspension bridge out towards Portishead - think part of your message was deleted though.

 

[Spark123]

It's your RCD. It's obsolete and it should be changed.

I haven't seen one like that before, is it a voltage operated ELCB?

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Timetocallanexpert, what does the text say on the trip?

 

[securespark]

The Storage Heater CU that is fed by the cropped tail must be dead.

The other CU is fed via a neutral that comes direct from the meter & a live that comes via the VO ELCB.

But there must be some odd connection in the ELCB to make this work, as there appears to be two lives leaving the bottom of the unit.

Maybe it is not operating as a CB, but just as a form of isolation switch?

If the live coming in at the top is linked across to the other pole, that would give two lives at the bottom.

Crazy, I know......

Trust Uncle Secure not to read the whole thread before posting....

 

[dannyboi2003]

Just looked at the pics again and if the CU on the left only has the 30amp and 5amp fuses connected when in use then there isnt much power being drawn from this supply. Assuming your other CU is fed from another supply and meter and that the house is now one single house why not do away with this supply and meter and have everything wired from the one consumer unit and one supply. At least you wont be paying two standing charges then, the incoming supply from outside and the cutout looks like its seen better days anyway and I'd be inclined to get the DNO to replace it. Is it possible for us to see a pic of your other CU and meter. If moving the wiring to the other CU isnt possible then keep a CU in this location but have it fed as a submain from the other CU/Supply.

The pros on here will be able to better advise you but i still think its best you call someone in to at least look at the installation and give you some advice, and to fix the fault you have at the minute.

All the best
Dan

 

[Steve]

With no neutral on that RCD/ELCB, it WILL NOT WORK. Simple as.

You NEED a new RCD and you NEED to get the wiring sorted to those 2 fuse boxes.

Currently the installation has no RCD protection, and this may be dangerous depending on the earthing situation, which also looks slightly dodgy.

A call to the DNO to say the installation is dangerous on their side might be in order here. That cutout is old and the incoming cable is showing its internal insulation.

As I understand it, the night-time fusebox there doesn't work, since its neutral seems to be severed and the live is connected to the "spare" neutral terminal of the ELCB.


Unfortunately, to remedy these faults, you're going to have to spend some money. You mention a second supply? photo?

 

[Spark123]

If it is one of those voltage ELBCs the phase and neutral won't need to be ballanced, they operate when the voltage across the earth terminals on it reach a predetermined value. They are considered obsolete now owing to parallel paths caused by things such as equipotential bonding, hence should be replaced at the earliest opportunity, (that is of course if it is one of those devices??)

 

[securespark]

It is indeed a Voltage-Operated Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker (VO ELCB). VO ELCB's are considered dangerous because they only monitor via the electrical earth connection (hence they are always connected to earth & do not operate when this connection is removed).

This means that if current goes down the earth wire, it will trip. However, if current goes to earth through YOU, it will not register.

THEY WERE DELETED FROM THE REGS IN 1985, AND ARE NO LONGER DEEMED A N ACCEPTABLE METHOD OF ELECTRICAL PROTECTION.

As Crafty says, if your installation is TT, then having no RCD protection at all is considered AT RISK.

In installations where the Ze is very high (like TT systems), the RCD is there to guarantee disconnection times are met. Without it the supply will not disconnect in the required time frame.

 

[ricicle]

With no neutral on that RCD/ELCB, it WILL NOT WORK. Simple as.

I don,t like to say it Crafty but you are commenting on something you know nothing about.That was a standard way of doing the dual rate supplies through an old voltage operated ELCB just using the 2 phase tails and would have worked in its day

You must try harder, come to the front of the class

 

[timetocallanexpert?]

Good news, rang the electricity company this morning and they owe me 500 pounds which should hopefully give me the money to upgrade the CU!

The reason there is another CU in the house is that it used to be two houses. I am turning it back into two houses so that I can stay here and look after my Father so it seems to make sense to leave both sides on different CUs. Also, the other CU is right over the other side of the house (similar age though) and it just seems too big a job to get everything through one. All I want at the moment is to get the CU in the photo working/replaced.

I had a guy come over yesterday evening and just want to check he's on the level before I do anything. I want him to replace the CU only and leave the wiring down to me (there are only two rings off that CU and lighting and we currently have the floorboards up and ceilings down so shouldn't be too difficult a job). He said that officially he wouldn't be able to do that as against the regs but that if I wanted him to do it that way he would make an exception for cash!!

Can one of you guys tell me if this is the case or whether he would be able to fit the CU without worrying about the wiring for the rings? If I asked him to fit the CU but not actually wire anything other than the incoming supply into it would that get around it?

Finally, is it still OK to have a TT system with external spike?

Thanks.