Combining PD and planning permission

[banana12]

This question has been in part answered already but i would be very grateful for some clarification if anyone has the time to help.

We put in two applications together, a larger house extension for a single story 6m rear extension (based on current floor plans upstairs), and we simultaneously put in a planning permission application for 1st floor side/rear and loft extensions, with the existing ground floor 3m extension on the plans. the no prior approval notice and planning permission were granted in the same week .

question is, do i need to do these works in any particular order as the applications were entirely seperate and together would probably not have been allowed (i originally went through planning for the ground floor and this was rejected).

i feel like i need to tread carefully as i am aware that under PD you can't have a double storey extension beyond 3m, so the 6m ground floor extension would not be allowed if i had a 3m first floor extension under planning already (i think?)

 

[^woody^]

Do as you like if they both have approval.

 

[banana12]

i don't have approval for the PD extension , only confirmation that no neighbours objected and hence "no prior approval" needed. i do not have a certificate of lawful development, so my understanding is it could still be lawful, or indeed unlawful if it breaches PD rules (by going beyond 3m on double storey extension). hence where my uncertainty lies!!

 

[RichA]

Difficult without plans. But if they connect then you’d need IMO to do the PD first. Otherwise it may not be PD.

 

[^woody^]

hence "no prior approval" needed

In which case it's confirmed as permitted development.

 

[Nakajo]

Does the Planning permission curtail your PD rights, or have any other conditions attached to it? If not, then it probably doesn't matter, but if in doubt then always enact the pd first.

 

[^woody^]

Does the Planning permission curtail your PD rights, or have any other conditions attached to it? If not, then it probably doesn't matter, but if in doubt then always enact the pd first.

The OP needs top complete the PD part before May 2019 regardless.

 

[napoleondynamite]

Not sure you can in fact carry them both out lawfully. The prior approval decision does not, as you say, confirm for certain that the extension is PD. You gain that confirmation through an LDC application should you wish. If that extension is PD, it can be carried out lawfully.

Your planning application shows on the 'proposed drawings' shows your other extensions in conjunction with the existing house. The resultant appearance / impact on neighbours was considered acceptable hence planning permission granted.

If you built your (potentially) PD GF extension, and were then to build your other approved extensions around it, the resultant appearance of the two schemes as a combined structure has not been assessed / granted planning permission.

You may technically be in the position that you can build one or other other but not both.

Combining PD works and works that need planning permission often only works if the two elements are clearly separable and do not physically adjoin.

Just my opinion, you can of course have a go at building the lot and see what happens next, the Planning Dept would often only get involved if a neighbor complains. IF you are risk adverse you may wish to put the query to Planning Dept and see what they say.

 

[geraldthehamster]

Correct me if I'm wrong - if the OP builds a 6m single storey extension, for which he has prior approval, but at the same time adds a 3m first floor to it, then he hasn't built a 6m single storey extension, but a 6m two storey extension, for which prior approval isn't obtainable.

And if he builds a 3m two storey extension, for which he has planning permission, but at the same time extends the ground floor to 6m, then he hasn't built a 3m two storey extension, but a 6m two storey extension, for which planning permission has not been obtained.

Unless councils have suddenly become generous, and started adding permissions together, rather than subtracting them.

 

[banana12]

The planning permission we received does not remove my PD rights. Yes they would attach because the first floor will be built on top of the existing 3m ground floor extension, which i understand once extended under Pd is counted as one large 6m extension. The PD application does mention the planning application as pending, which it was at the time. either way we haven't started any works so we still have our pd rights. Building work should complete in plenty of time before May 2019.

Looks like everyone has different answers for this... same as builders and architects we speak with. The council planning officer did tell us unofficially on the phone to submit ground floor plans separately through neighbour consultation. still not feeling confident about what to do, but my feeling is the planning dept will check that our upstairs build complies under planning permission, but likely no one will check for our PD works at ground floor, so the order im leaning towards to minimise risk is planning build first (and all signed off). then pd build.

my next thought is to look through all the PD prior approvals in my borough to see if anyone has tried applying for a larger home extension on top of a 3m double storey extension.

 

[geraldthehamster]

As I understand it, an extension added to an extension creates a new extension that is considered in its own right. Once you've built the first floor on the 3m extension, you have a 3m two storey extension. I don't think you then have anywhere to go in building a 6m single storey extension that would be allowed under prior approval. But as before I may be wrong.

 

[^woody^]

If you built your (potentially) PD GF extension, and were then to build your other approved extensions around it, the resultant appearance of the two schemes as a combined structure has not been assessed / granted planning permission.

No. If the planners are concerned about any PD work in the meantime, then they have the option of conditioning the approval. It's implicit that they have considered the potential for PD as part of the overall assessment.

 

[^woody^]

Correct me if I'm wrong - if the OP builds a 6m single storey extension, for which he has prior approval, but at the same time adds a 3m first floor to it, then he hasn't built a 6m single storey extension, but a 6m two storey extension, for which prior approval isn't obtainable.

I'm correcting you.

The two are distinct and not joined

 

[^woody^]

The prior approval decision does not, as you say, confirm for certain that the extension is PD

Of course it does.

The prior approval regime is part of the PD process untill May 2019.

Therefore whatever meets the criteria for a prior approval application, goes through the procedure and is not rejected, is deemed to be PD.

 

[Nakajo]

I'm not sure that there's any 'of course' about it - although recent judgements do appear to support that position (except where the applicant has deliberately deceived the LPA). Nevertheless, where the proposals incorporate a change of use, an LDC may be advisable.