Connecting extension to master socket using same cable as external line

[Oli Keighley]

Hi all,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

We have recently moved into a premises that used to be two separate flats, each with it's own phone line. Now we are here the master socket for our line is upstairs, but we need an extension downstairs for the alarm system to connect to.

There is an old (disconnected) BT master socket downstairs which has a cable that runs outside to a junction box where the drop line meets the house. The master socket upstairs also runs outside to this same junction box where the drop line comes in. Ideally, I would like make use of all this existing cabling if possible, as running new cables would be a nightmare due to the distance and many thick walls between each socket.

Would it be possible to use a pair of wires in the existing cable which runs to our new master socket to run the signal back up to the junction box and connect to the old cable which runs downstairs? Or is there another solution which doesn't require running new cables?

I know work like this isn't allowed without a BT engineer, but i'd like to know what i'm dealing with before calling them as so far each engineer that has come to help us has been useless (many visits for 2 phone lines and 1 internet connection).

Once again thank you for reading.

Regards,
Oli

 

[plugwash]

It's technically possible to run pre and post master socket wiring in the same cable.

AIUI it's against official BT policy to do it but some engineers do it anyway. Some people also do it themselves without telling BT.

 

[Oli Keighley]

Thanks for your reply. Would it make a difference that the socket which will be used as an extension is an NTE5 BT Master socket - should it be changed for a standard telephone extension socket?

I understand this is probably unorthodox solution but the alternative option requires so much extra work it seems silly not to.

 

[davelx]

There should only be ONE master socket, which is usually the one to which the incoming line is directly connected. It IS possible (and I've seen Openreach technicians do it) to have the master socket elswhere, but there should still be only one.

 

[Oli Keighley]

Ok so it is possible to run the wiring back up the same cable, but the secondary socket should be changed to a standard telephone socket?

 

[JM2]

Any reason why the alarm won't work correctly on the extension socket ?
- An ordinary dialler would.
- If this is for Redcare, the above would be non-complaint anyway.

 

[bernardgreen]

Any reason why the alarm won't work correctly on the extension socket ?

Some diallers require the bell wire ( terminal 3 ) to be connected so you would need two pairs between the master socket and the socket for the alarm.

By taking your "internal" circuit via the external cable you risk it being disconnected if OpenReach do any work of their junction box. This caould be at any time day or night and without you knowing about it until the alarm reports "no telephone connection". If connected to a monitoring centre ( who would not accept your proposal if they were aware ) that checks the line you would get an alarm from them. As it is a "owner error" ( owner bodge ) that caused the alarm they may impose further conditions / costs on you.

Taking ADSL signals back along a second pair in the same cable as they arrive in can degrade the ADSL signal

 

[drgl]

Never come across a dialler that needs the ring wire, in any case you could get around that by using a PBX socket on the extension. As for ADSL, easy to get around that, fit a filtered faceplate to the master & feed the filtered side to the dialler (which needs to be filtered anyway).

 

[Oli Keighley]

Thanks for all your replies.

The line doesn't have an ADSL connection anyway, the other phone line does so that is no problem and to get to the junction box they have to go through our building and out of an upstairs window so that is not a particular worry either.

Seems to me running it back up the same cable is the quick/easy/dodgy option - while running a new and mighty long extension cable is the safe/expensive/long winded option.

Is there any other solution BT might be able to offer us which wouldn't require another hole in the window frame and extra cabling?

 

[plugwash]

another option may be to move the master socket to near where the junction box is so that everything after it becomes extension wiring.

 

[JM2]

No, the easiest and best solution is to plug it into the extension.
Is there any reason why this won't work for you ?

 

[Oli Keighley]

No, the easiest and best solution is to plug it into the extension.
Is there any reason why this won't work for you ?

The socket downstairs (where I need the alarm plugging in) which I think is what you are referring to, is an old BT master socket, of which the cable goes up to the drop line but is no longer connected. The building used to be two flats, and so had one line to the top floor and one to the bottom.

 

[JM2]

Then see post #2 (but you aren't allowed to) and #10 (same).
If #10 was the case when you moved in, that would have been ideal.

 

[Oli Keighley]

Then see post #2 (but you aren't allowed to) and #10 (same).
If #10 was the case when you moved in, that would have been ideal.

Sorry for the delay replying, and thank you for clarifying.