Conservatory roof, again....

[bsas]

Hello all:

We recently bought a house that came with a uPVC conservatory with polycarb roof. The place is rather nice now that it's neither hot nor cold, but I foresee it being a freezer in winter, and will be a shame to lose the space completely for so many months.

Considering any type of heating (of which there's none at the moment) seems like a waste of time (soon to become a waste of money once installed) unless we can do something to minimize the amount of heat lost through the roof.

I've been reading the endless amounts of threads on this topic and googled my eyes out, and not found any decent solutions, other than, of course, ditch the conservatory and build an extension. Budget wise, this is not an option for a while, so I have to find an alternative.

I'm aware of the little inserts to the polycarb roof panels, and I've also considered greenroom-type bubblewarp as well as blinds. But my thinking is: If I need 270mm of good insulating material in my loft to keep the house warm, how can a little 5mm deep strip/ canvas / other magic material be enough in my conservatory?

I'm therefore about to fit a temporary false ceiling, with decent amount of insulation on top. The false ceiling will be at the level where the DG windows end, and be supported by a wooden grid resting on the existing lip between the conservatory window frames and the pitched polycarb roof.
To this grid I will screw some thin ply (or other boards) and put plenty of insulation on top (currently looking at either thermafleece or kinspan/cellotex, whichever is lighter).
Weight is an issue as I'm aware the conservatory surely wasn't built to withstand much more than the polycarb panels, but it surely will be able to support the temporary ceiling.

When glorious summer returns, I simply take the insulation away, unscrew the ply and take the wooden grid away.

Has anyone attempted something similar? I'll be curious about your comments. I shall also update once I'm done.

 

[masona]

I'm therefore about to fit a temporary false ceiling, with decent amount of insulation on top. The false ceiling will be at the level where the DG windows end, and be supported by a wooden grid resting on the existing lip between the conservatory window frames and the pitched polycarb roof.
To this grid I will screw some thin ply (or other boards) and put plenty of insulation on top (currently looking at either thermafleece or kinspan/cellotex, whichever is lighter).
Weight is an issue as I'm aware the conservatory surely wasn't built to withstand much more than the polycarb panels, but it surely will be able to support the temporary ceiling.

The next problem will be the conservatory building regulations -75% of the roof area to be covered with either glass or polycarbonate.

Considering any type of heating (of which there's none at the moment) seems like a waste of time (soon to become a waste of money once installed) unless we can do something to minimize the amount of heat lost through the roof.

What type of heating have you considered?

What is the floor area of your conservatory?

I'm in my conservatory everyday and every evening for 12 months

I'm in the UK as well

 

[Richard C]

As stated, what you propose will mean your conservatory will cease to be a conservatory but be regarded as an extension &, strictly speaking, will become an unauthorised structure as it will never in a million years meet the whole host of other Building Regulations that will then affect it. Any heating system must be capable of being independently controlled & isolated from the main system in the rest of the property & you must maintain an external grade door(s) between it & the main dwelling or, again, it ceases to be a conservatory. Apart from that it seems an awfull lot of agro to go through for a temporary overwinter mod.

To give you some idea, I have 22 sq/m cons with good floor/wall insulation, a 50mm poly roof & current spec K glass windows. Heating consists of 4 Kw under floor + 3Kw of radiant heating & although that lot will keep up, it costs a small fortune to run in winter so we rarely use it between end October/beginning April. Even the best built cons. is only about as heat efficient as your average garden shed &, unless you spend a fortune heating it, is not really suitable for year round use in most parts of the UK.

 

[bsas]

Thank you Masona and Richard C for your comments.

It never occurred to me that a temporary ceiling will render the conservatory an unauthorised structure.
If the issue is related to the 75% translucency of the roof (which technically will remain unchanged), I see little difference between a wooden grid which can be removed in about 15 minutes and blinds, which are readily available and also obscure the sun.
And one solution potentially saves tons of wasted energy while the other one doesn't.

I fully understand if it works for you, but 7kw of heating for a conservatory is way beyond what I'm prepared to allow. I've heated the living room in our previous house (around 50 sq metres) with a single 2kW electric heater, rarely on for more than a couple of hours a day. The entire first floor (three bedrooms and bathrooom) with a single 2.5kW storage heater in the landing.
I know our new house still has tons to go before it can be that energy efficient, and that's one of the main reasons I'm tackling the conservatory first.

Yes, I'd never built the conservatory if it had been my choice, and, as I said, this conservatory will become an extension once finances allow.

I'll give the council a call to see if they also think mi idea will contravene regulations.

I'll let you know!

 

[masona]

I have a multifuel cast iron stove with twinwall flue which I put a layer of coal then wood on top, sometime I have to open the door to let the heat out! No heating bills to worry about just pay as you go

 

[bsas]

Ahh, I like the idea of the wood burning stove

I'm guessing you had to change at least on roof panel to something that could handle the heat, correct?

 

[Richard C]

I'll give the council a call to see if they also think mi idea will contravene regulations.
I'll let you know!

Do post back as I’d be very interested to hear what they have to say.

I have a multifuel cast iron stove with twinwall flue which I put a layer of coal then wood on top, sometime I have to open the door to let the heat out! No heating bills to worry about just pay as you go

I've got one of those in the lounge which we migrate to in winter & we also burn a mix of wood & solid fuel. Installed just last year, it’s rated at 8 Kw but we never run it at full tilt as it fries you; it does a very good job of supplementing the oil fired C/H system though which will switch off after the fire’s been running a couple of hours. We got through 3 cwt of Anthracite over last winter - around £58 but my wood is all free & total heating oil cost was just under £400 for the year, nearly £300 down on the previous year!

 

[masona]

I'm guessing you had to change at least on roof panel to something that could handle the heat, correct?

No, keep the panel just cut a hole round the flue pipe, no flue is touching any part of the conservatory, the downside is the twinwall stainless flue pipe is not cheap, my stove is 6kw which is a bit too big, you only need 1kw per 14m3, they do smaller stove kw output for conservatory.

 

[Richard C]

That looks really nice & very cosy it's very similar to what I originally proposed for mine but circumstance dictated a change of plan but we have now have a very nice modern cassette stove in our lounge.

 

[masona]

The stove in the conservatory is heating the rest of the bungalow which I'm surprised therefore keeping my central heating on low
Don't know if you're seen them, the last couple of year, I get pallet loads as it work out cheaper in bulk buying is the Wood Briquettes, got mine from here and surprised their delivery is quick and reliable specially I'm nowhere near Liverpool! I use coals and wood briquettes together.

http://www.liverpoolwoodpellets.co.uk/page_1442185.html

The 1st time I bought the smallest load to see how I get on

 

[bsas]

That does look very nice indeed, and thank you for sharing.

Fitting a stove in the main living room was always a plan of ours (we have almost unlimited supply of wood as we live next to woodland) but I admit never thinking of one in the conservatory.
With our house being two floors, the flue will have to be very high above the conservatory roof and probably will look rather silly out there though.

In any case, a stove installation is still beyond our finances now, considering the other (urgent) jobs we need to do.

As an update on my idea for the conservatory:

I spoke to Building Control, and explained my point. If blinds, which obscure the conservatory roof completely, are allowed, why would a temporary false ceiling with proper insulation be illegal?
After admitting they never heard that question before, and that I had a good point, they effectively said that for as long as I had an external grade door between my living room and the conservatory, whatever I did in the conservatory while leaving its external roof intact did not bother them at all.
If I were to take that door between my living room away, or replace the polycarb conservatory roof with something solid, then I will be in breach.

In other words, I shall tell you in a few months time whether my removable false ceiling made things a bit toastier in the winter or not!

 

[masona]

I spoke to Building Control, and explained my point. If blinds, which obscure the conservatory roof completely, are allowed, why would a temporary false ceiling with proper insulation be illegal?
After admitting they never heard that question before, and that I had a good point, they effectively said that for as long as I had an external grade door between my living room and the conservatory, whatever I did in the conservatory while leaving its external roof intact did not bother them at all.

Interesting, it could be a grey area, the way I see it, it's still under building regulations so I think it's best to get it in writing! The problem is where do you draw the line, if I build an extension without planning but should be okay if I put a conservatory over it

If I were to take that door between my living room away,

This is more to do with your household insurance, I have seen it many times they take out the exterior door completely or swap it over with internal door therefore unknown to them their insurance policies is invalid!

 

[bsas]

Interesting, it could be a grey area, the way I see it, it's still under building regulations so I think it's best to get it in writing! The problem is where do you draw the line, if I build an extension without planning but should be okay if I put a conservatory over it

I fully agree it is a grey area, but mine was always intended to be a temporary solution, so I won't be investing neither lots of money nor time in implementing it. All I want to do is lower the U rating of my conservatory from the existing stratospheric value to something half decent so that I don;t have to waste a lot of money and resources keeping the place warm.

If a BC inspector happens to randomly pop in to have a look, I won't be terribly mortified if he asks me to remove it, and well before we plan to sell this house I hope to have built the proper extension.

Having spoken to Building Control, I feel reassured that I have at least a point and what I'm planning to do is not wildly out of tone.
But yes, where do you draw the line is debatable. Luckily it is not my job to legislate that.

 

[Richard C]

Thanks for posting back bsas & some interesting points from both sides there. I suspect another LABC maight take a slightly different view but this one gets a bookmark for future ref;

 

[Deleted member 63160]

How about Celotex siliconed too underside of polycarb, bit of silicon at the joins, 2 layers of lining paper and a thick couple of coats of emulsion.
If you used 70mm board weight on a typical 3.6 x 2.9 lean to roof only about 26 kg ( I think ). Would look just like a papered ceiling in some old
house. Total cost 150 sovs ish. Anyone asks it was like that when you moved in, just been painted tho.