JohnD said:
Softus said:
Eh?! How is it, then, that most of the leaks I fix are caused by poor installation of copper/soldered and/or brass/compression components?
Like the four-foot shark, this is bound to be influenced by the number of installations with copper pipes, compared to the number with plastic. Age of installations will also have a bearing. I bet you knew that really
Indeed I did/do, but (a) there's abundant plastic around that has already exceeded the time it takes for copper to corrode and/or wear out, and (b) you took my comment out of context - it was in reply to the following statement:
You just never hear the same stories about copper.
The reason the person who made that statement doesn't hear stories about copper is nothing to do with the relative proportion of installations of copper vs. plastic - he/she either doesn't listen, or lives and works in a world insulated from real-life plumbing.
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Balenza said:
Softus said:
Eh?! How is it, then, that most of the leaks I fix are caused by poor installation of copper/soldered and/or brass/compression components?
Just stating my findings.
I see. So is it equally valid for me to conclude, given that in my limited sphere of experience I have never had sex with a man, that there is no such thing as a homosexual? And that I'm "just stating my findings"?
I would guess plumbers in your area are sub - standard.
Course cowboys and such like ?
Is that what you do in the absence of first-hand knowledge - you "guess"? You don't investigate and ask people who have more experience?
How many soldered joint leaks exactly are you talking about per year ?
Approximately none - I didn't say that soldered joints fail, because generally they don't. But plenty of copper corrodes
near soldered joints, because of the excess flux lying on the inside of pipework. And plenty of copper corrodes because of particles of iron coming off radiators that have been installed without flushing out.
How long had the installations being installed ?
It varies between 2 years and 40 years.
Why did the clients involved not get their own copper plumbers back to rectify the leaks ?
I didn't ask, but in most cases it's patently obvious that they weren't the people who engaged the original plumber. And when properties are rented, it's the agent who decides which contractor to engage for an emergency repair (unless the landlord has specified a preferred contractor, which is fairly rare).
And finally how many homes have you flooded due to using pushfit ?
Zero. But it's a meaningless question, because I've never flooded a home. I've come close, just like any other tradesperson, but the error has always been insufficient precautions, or bad planning, or not fully tightening a compression joint (for example) before testing, rather than a technical error in making a joint.
And how many will be flooded in the future due to O ring failures and pop offs due to pressure fluctuations ?
None of my work will "pop off", because it's installed, and clipped/secured where necessary, in such a way that it can't happen. I don't know how many 'O' rings will fail during the natural lifetime of their installation, but I do know that so far it's none (of mine), and I do know that I've seen countless examples of non-pushfit joints that have failed as a result of the poor manner of installation. Mind you, I throw away (or return to the merchant) any push-fit fitting with a faulty component, any compression fitting with a missing or mis-shapen olive, and any solder-ring fitting that has missing or insufficient solder. I suppose that some people don't spot all those faults, and those people probably have problems.
Notwithstanding all of that, I get the feeling that you're not really asking me to predict how many failures there will be in any product or type of installation, but that you're attempting to highlight the fact that the jury is still out on plastic and push-fit. I would agree with that - what I don't agree with is the mistrust of new technology when it arises merely from a poor understanding of how to use and install it. And this forum is full of posts that illustrate that particular lack of understanding and the consequent ignorant prejudice.
