Cost of BS7671 2008

[VanSolo]

I have encountered a real reluctance in clients in commercial premesis to foot the bill for the additional costs incurred by the introduction of the 17th edition. I have done quite a few 3 phase DB changes and every time there is the same hassle about the price of 24 or 36 RCBOs as compared to MCBs, with claims of "We have a skilled person on site". Seems to me that firms pricing jobs to comply with the regs are going to lose out to companies who collude with clients to get budget jobs done, especially in the current financial climate. Anyone else come across this?

 

[kevindgas]

not personally as don't do commercial, but i'm sure you are right as its getting that way on the domestic front too.

at this rate i might as well go and work at tesco as a trolley boy - less hours, less cr*p and probably better wages

 

[sparkyspike]

It wasn't that long ago that MCBs were £7 or £8 each. RCBOs have come down from £40 to £20 pretty quickly, so hopefully it won't be long before they become more affordable. It's exactly the same with LED lights, CFLs, etc.

Before the 17th edition, RCBOs were a bit of a luxury and I tended to reserve them only for industrial installations. But within the new regs, I haven't yet had a problem with customers baulking at spending money on the extra protection. In fact, some customers have asked for upgrades from split RCD boards because of the nuisance of having to restart your computer every time the main RCD goes. Last week I retrofitted 11 RCBOs into a domestic board just for this reason. I doubt that many customers can afford this at the moment, which is why dual RCDs are generally fitted, but I suppose the more RCBOs we buy, the cheaper they will get. Like the lamps.

 

[ericmark]

"We have a skilled person on site".

So protection not required for cables under 50mm in walls etc. They have a point! Are you issued with permit to work? If not then having a skilled person on site means nothing as he does not have control of what others do.

 

[VanSolo]

"We have a skilled person on site".

Are you issued with permit to work? If not then having a skilled person on site means nothing as he does not have control of what others do.

This has been my point in discussions.I think a lot of companies, both clients and electricial contractors are on thin ice with this one.
But who is there to enforce compliance with current regulations?

 

[JACKC]

We use the skilled person at work as the only people who operate any machinery are trained to operate it. If they are not signed off they don't touch.

 

[ericmark]

The only people to enforce the rules are HSE. They do tend to be down to earth and more concerned with real safety than following the book to the letter.
If we consider real safety then a 300ma RCD would normally trip with cable damage just as quick as a 30ma RCD. Plus unlikely to trip with spikes on line.
The whole 522.6.x is flawed as it does not allow for SELV cables in walls so as such we must take some consideration as to intent rather than what it says.
There are get out of jail free cards where you agree on an upgrade. For example if the firm intend to replace the twin and earth with ali-tube cable then to use RCBO on every circuit it not required. It would be considered as work in progress.
You are on site you have to consider what is safe. Having one RCD supplying many MCB's if using something like

Untitled

• ericmark
• 6 Dec 2008
• 34

this may be OK but likely to cost more than MCB's anyway. Emergency lighting also will have a bearing on what can be done.
If you are worried ring the HSE and ask them for advise they are normally quite good. If they say OK then it is OK as they are only ones likely to take you to court over it.

 

[hairyben]

To be fair, on the domestic front RCBO's don't add all that to the cost of a rewire, most people are happy to pay the extra when the benefits are explained to them. They do bump the price of a CU swap, I tend to offer both options and push people in the direction of RCBO's.

Does this company have a chief electrical engineer or suchlike? Will they confirm in writing that the installation is under the control of skilled persons and MCB-only protection is required?

That said cost alone is a pretty shabby reason to ditch RCBO protection.