Couple of questions about renewing locks for uPVC doors

[CluelessDIYer1]

1. I saw a guide saying you shouldn't have it protruding too much.

This is typical of mine:

Untitled

• CluelessDIYer1
• 26 Jan 2015
• 1

It sticks out 5mm on the inside, 4mm on the outside.

Is that fine? Just the piece i was reading was making it sound like it'd be better flush.

2. Is there a bad thing about having the same locks/key for each door?

I saw a link for the ABS locks & i think you can get 1 key fitting multiple locks.
Would certainly be good for the keyring - only 1 key.
I'd have one, my wife would have one & my mother would have one & that'd be it.

However, is this setup a bad idea for some reason that is escaping me? We have a front door, a side door & a rear patio door. Should at least 1 of them be a different key to the other 2 or does it really not matter?

I thought about the key breaking perhaps, but then if it does, it's highly unlikely all 3 keys will break on the same day.

 

[Burnerman]

Ideally, the euro lock should be flush with the handle escutcheon, to minimise the effect of 'bumping' or hitting the cylinder, breaking off the peg inside.
Quality barrels are available at over £30, at various sizes/lengths.
As for suite barrels or keys to pass, well that has to be up to you......it's easier to break the lock rather than pick it, but if you lose one key then you change them all.
My own locks have a turn button on the inside which could make for a quicker exit in the event of fire.
John

 

[Gazman16]

Ideally flush with the outside but no more than 1-2mm, Inside dosent matter.
Its mainly to protect from lock snapping.

ABS locks are a good choice. As Burnerman says only problem with keyed alike locks is if you lose 1 key you need to replace all the locks really.

Burnerman also mentioned thumbturn locks. In practice they are great for everyday use and escape during a fire but not so good for security (could possibly even invalidate your house insurance).
If your door has glass or a window to the side an intruder only need to break the glass and reach through to get in easily or even with a tool through the letterbox.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Ahh I was considering them thumb turn locks but yeah we have a window next to it.

Also am I missing something about the ABS locks?

You say if I lose a key then id need to change all locks. Though what I've read just says you need to quote your serial number & they send you out a new key.

I'm sure I've just missed something but that was my understanding.

 

[Gazman16]

Well yes replacement keys are easy enough to get but who ends up with a key to every door in your house?

Its ok if nothing on your keyring identifies your house and you know for sure noone picked it up and followed you home to see which house it fits.

The problem with losing keys is that you rarely know where you lost them lol

 

[Burnerman]

Good comment, Gaz.....the reason behind my thinking is that people often leave the keys in the lock, so whether it's thumb turn or not security is compromised if a window is brayed in.
John

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

I thought about that after i hit post actually but didn't have time to edit on my breaks.

It's pretty handy that you can get different colour tops with the ABS keys. For that i'd probably have to go on a trafflic light system red for front door, yellow for side door & green for back door lol.


I measured up the locks & i was wondering about this. Take the front door for example:

Total length: 95mm
Exterior: 55mm
Interior: 40mm

Funnily when i put the lock back in, it sticks out a different measurement to before. Like i think it's now 6mm on the inside instead of 5mm or whatever it was. Weird.

Anyway, to get the outside more flush instead of sticking out, would this be a better bet (assuming i've worked out the measurement right...

Exterior: 50mm
Interior: 45mm

??

Still 95mm in total length. Or would the interior now stick out an absolutely ridiculous amount & i should just switch like-for-like (55mm ext, 40mm int)?

 

[Gazman16]

I would go with the 50/45 its fine to be sticking out on the inside.

 

[frusc]

Do you mean the ABS Avocet MK3 locks? They are anti snap/bump so it makes it less imperative the lock sits flush at the front.

However, I'd still try and achieve that as an attacker won't necessarily know that and may see a protruding cylinder as worth a try to snap. The result being the intruder doesn't get in, but you return home and can't get in either

I've just replaced my locks with these. So far I'm really happy with them. The key fits either way, which is handy in the evening, saving some fiddling about. They're also completely different to standard keys, so easy to spot/feel on your keyring.

Like you I had a thumb turn but went for key both sides this time. I have experience of this from my parents house, but I'm still adjusting and finding it annoying. You may want to check if you can fit an offset pad handle as that would offer the best of both worlds (can open from the inside but not the outside, unless you deadlock the door).

The Key both sides configuration is definitely more secure when you're not in the house. But when you're in the house my experience is people leave the key in the lock or near the door, somewhat defeating the point. In fact I've read with these ABS anti snap locks if you leave the key in, you can snap the front and open the lock with a screwdriver (so definitely don't leave it in over night if this is true?). Either way when you're in the house its important you have a key handy in case of fire/emergency.

Also I got mine keyed alike. Yes you'd have to change all the locks if you lost a key, but the cylinders are easy to change (one screw). It would of course be more costly, but hopefully you're not losing your keys regularly. So I consider the convenience to outweigh the higher one off cost if you lose a key. And it helps me adjust to losing the thumb turn, as a bigger pool of keys for the front door when a delivery comes and you're wondering where the bloody key is.

I should point out I'm a novice and have just learnt the above while researching my lock change. So apologies if I've got anything wrong with regard to technicalities.

 

[SFK]

All,
I changed my Euro Locks to shorter ones (as mine all expended far to far out from door handle) after having local issue with people snapping Eurolock by levering off door handle with screwdriver and then using tool to rotate and hence snap the Euro lock in half at its middle point. Then door unlocked using tool into hole.

Eitherway, I now have only one Key for all the doors (including Side Gate). This has been absolutely great for me as my keys now significantly lighter (four keys reduced to one), and now I no longer need to remember which key is for which door.

I am often asked - "does that mean that I have to change all the locks if I loose the loose the 'one' key". And the answer to this is "yes I do, but I would have done that before as then all my multiple keys were also on one key ring."

The only disadvantage that I could see was that the setup cost was relatively high as I had to install Euro Locking mechanisms (to take the Euro lock) into two wood doors.

SFK

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Do you mean the ABS Avocet MK3 locks? They are anti snap/bump so it makes it less imperative the lock sits flush at the front.

I'm wondering how flush is flush, because they arrived today & they're VERY flush, to the point where i'm thinking are they sat TOO FAR back (on the exterior)??

I kinda of like them, but i don't like how they stick out so much on the inside. I would've liked it to have been less. It's now 9mm on the inside & totally 0mm on the exterior.



Is that ^^^ ok then?



Since they were the same length etc, both the front door & the side door are exactly the same.


the patio door was 30mm-x-30mm so it had to remain sticking out 5mm as this was the shortest lock they did.

The nuisance is that the shape of the key makes it a little difficult to lock the patio door now as it brushes on the frame work.


On the topic of the key, i like how they're coloured, as i went for a trafflic light system (red front, orange side, green rear) so i knew which key was for which door, but the tops are plastic. It makes me worry if the top part is going to snap off my keyring & i'll have to order a new key.




Again i didn't think - if you lose 1 key, you're likely to lose them all, including car keys etc etc etc etc since they're all on the same keyring.

 

[SFK]

Dear Clueless.
As far as I am concerned the length that they stick out or in does not effect there operation at all (although as you suggest the key can foul.

but the Shorter and closer they are to the door surface the less lilely they are to be snapped by an intruder. (and remember that often the intruder pulls off the handle to make it easier to attach his tool to the euro lock). So you could say that your lock is now safer than others.

So in conclusion, you are exta secure and there are no issues with what you have done as long as your key works okay.

For next time, (sorry if you already know this) to determine the length of euro lock you need to measuring out in the two directions from the euro lock securing bolt that is located on the edge of your door. Looking at your door i guess you needed a 30mm/25mm or a 35mm/25mm euro lock.

Sfk

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Yeah the video i saw on how to measure said measure using the door

But all other guides i read said measure the existing lock, as measuring the door is only rough guide anyway & you can get it wrong.

Anyway, it's done now. Another job ticked off