Covid-19 discussion

[IT Minion]

Why arent they including elderly care homes in the daily stats for covid19? I'm guessing its ripping through some of these

It's because of the way the stats are being collected. In short anyone who isn't admitted to hospital before dying isn't showing up in the PHE stats.
The ONS stats will include them if Covid-19 is on the death certificate, but that does assume they get tested which hasn't been happening for people who haven't been into hospital.

 

[Munroast]

It's because of the way the stats are being collected. In short anyone who isn't admitted to hospital before dying isn't showing up in the PHE stats.
The ONS stats will include them if Covid-19 is on the death certificate, but that does assume they get tested which hasn't been happening for people who haven't been into hospital.

it is now in scotland, if the docor certifying death thinks it was CV related then it goes on the daily cases (a few days delay, but is still included)
I guess it doesn't make that much difference which method is used when trying to establish when the peak has been reached. (over the worst) but could show one country in a slightly worse light than another.

 

[JohnD]

It's because of the way the stats are being collected. In short anyone who isn't admitted to hospital before dying isn't showing up in the PHE stats.
The ONS stats will include them if Covid-19 is on the death certificate, but that does assume they get tested which hasn't been happening for people who haven't been into hospital.

This is a technique which has the effect of concealing deaths in old people's homes, and of people whose poor health, or lack of resources, means they will not benefit from treatment. It might not be deliberate.

 

[ajohn]

This is a technique which has the effect of concealing deaths in old people's homes, and of people whose poor health, or lack of resources, means they will not benefit from treatment. It might not be deliberate.

They did mention this after a fashion. It's deliberate in terms of wanting to limit data to definitely be CV19 related so excluding data where there hasn't been any virus testing. NVG really for Scotland to do any different.

No interest elsewhere but I found this disturbing.

Any theories? Differences based on ethnic aspects are being mentioned here now but white makes up 80% of the combined population of england and wales.

 

[IT Minion]

This is a technique which has the effect of concealing deaths in old people's homes, and of people whose poor health, or lack of resources, means they will not benefit from treatment. It might not be deliberate.

I think it's unintended, it's just part of the way the NHS isn't set up as a single organisation. It's massively fragmented. It's also acknowledged as being less than ideal, that's why the ONS stats are being compiled.

 

[ajohn]

This is a technique which has the effect of concealing deaths in old people's homes, and of people whose poor health, or lack of resources, means they will not benefit from treatment. It might not be deliberate.

It is intended but not for concealing. The reason is as I mentioned previously. China for instance found some old peoples homes full of dead people - put down to carers running away. Chances are all are reporting the same way.

 

[Charlie George]

They did mention this after a fashion. It's deliberate in terms of wanting to limit data to definitely be CV19 related so excluding data where there hasn't been any virus testing. NVG really for Scotland to do any different.

No interest elsewhere but I found this disturbing.

View attachment 188636
Any theories? Differences based on ethnic aspects are being mentioned here now but white makes up 80% of the combined population of england and wales.

Wales Scotland and NI have very few ethnic minorities compared to England, could be a factor.

 

[ajohn]

Wales Scotland and NI have very few ethnic minorities compared to England, could be a factor.

The wales - england difference doesn't really fit in with that. B'ham for instance is 70% and Wales 94% yet death looked at this way doubles for an increase in infections. Wales being 94% compared with 80% for both isn't going to alter the 80% by much.

 

[festive]

Well as much as I dont like the chap Kudos Mr Khan I agree with you completely. Maybe a few of you on here need to show a bit of humility at times..

BBC News - Coronavirus: London mayor Sadiq Khan calls for 'compulsory' face masks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

 

[Munroast]

Looking at the amount of empty booze bottles stacked up outside the over-flowing bottle banks today, it looked a lot like xmas, I'm thinking if the lockdown continues the next epidemic will be liver disease.

(I was told the bottles banks are still be emptied as normal)

 

[durhamplumber]

This is a technique which has the effect of concealing deaths i

Very much doubt that.

 

[IT Minion]

Very much doubt that.

It does, as JohnD says it may or may not be deliberate, but it definitely is hiding Covid-19 deaths from the official Covid-19 stats.

 

[JohnD]

Very much doubt that.

Have four thousand people died in care homes?

How many have died in their own homes?

Don't you know?

 

[ajohn]

The figures for deaths out of hospital can be pulled out of the ONS data when they are published. They have average death data for years and it doesn't vary that much. Flue deaths do vary now and again but usually not by much. So they count CV19. Then the problems start. They also know what people usually die of so if they see significantly more certain reasons for death they wonder why especially if they are lung related. Going on a whistle blower report they are too high especially for one illness. It was said to be rather popular. So if there are any anomalies in this area we will never know if they should have been included in the CV19 group. Info gone for ever.

 

[durhamplumber]

It does, as JohnD says it may or may not be deliberate

Sorry...but i very very rarely agree with anything the above comes out with