customers that do not pay

[bengasman]

Debt collecting


Customers that decide they do not have to pay you for extra work they asked you to do.

Most of you will have had this experience and hope fully some will have found a good way to solve it.
Here is what happened in a nutshell.
My quote for a central heating system installation was accepted, started when agreed and finished in time. All that was left was getting access to the neighbour`s garden to seal the flue passage and commission the boiler.
Several days later the polish plumber comes in who then re-routed the condensate pipe, which now has a rise in stead of a fall. Changed the gaspipe and decided to `borrow` the dedicated cable for the boiler to create a ring for the kitchen sockets.
The chap that did the work could not answer my questions as to what he had done because he did not speak English.
There was also a gas escape so I riddored it.
I informed the owner that the flat was dangerous and that I could not commision the boiler as it was not to spec anymore.
She asked me to repair the damage and agreed to have the council inspect the electrical installation as I was not prepared to accept it or approve it myself.
She agreed and I did the work. At the inspection some other faults were found and I agreed to contact the supplier for confirmation of what was needed.
The next day at 9 at night I got a call from the boyfriend asking me why I had not reported on the progress. When I got a load of abuse from him, I hung up and asked the owner in writing to find someone else.
She has not responded to repeated requests to come to an arrangement so I will now have to take action to recover my costs which have run up to more than £1000.
Who can recommend what to do based on experience of similar situation? I am unsure what the loop holes are when you go through the small claims court. Am I better off engaging debt-collectors?

Thanks for your input,

Ben

 

[Mac-the-Wrench]

Make sure you keep a good paper trail. That is letters you've sent and received.

Always send yours by registered post.

You have to give them 14 days to respond to your request to pay, and then if you get no response you can take it to the small claims. It'll cost around £40 (you add this to your claim against them) and takes about two weeks before it comes to court.

They have to respond to the summons with their reasons for not paying up.

The more reasonable you appear to the court, the more likely they'll find in your favour.

Good luck.

 

[Zampa]

I really hope im wrong here but by writing to the ownner and asking them to find someone else you may have broken your original conract.

They may be entitled to have the work put right/finished off and take it from any monies owed to you

They sound like trouble anyway..who would employ a plumber who cannot speak a word of english to do work that he probably isnt registered to do?

Best of luck with it though...hope im wrong.

Softus might be able to help you with this

 

[joe-90]

Are you saying that the central heating was fully installed for £1000? Or that (in your opinion) the extra work was worth £1000? Did you give a written quote that was accepted? Or just go ahead and do it? All she has to say is that you said you'd make the adjustments without charge and you are scuppered. Even if you win a court case the chances of them paying up are pretty slight. Forget it - walk away, it's not worth the hassle. It's only a couple of days work for a gas fitter anyway.

 

[bengasman]

Thanks for your input guys, really appreciate it.
Some further details that may be significant.

The £1000 was for various bits on top of the installation. Replacement of steel pipe with 28mm, 10mm wire for the hob, and repair of the damage done by the polish cowboys.

Part of the bill is materials and the fee for the council inspection. I can hardly imagine a judge or magistrate who would believe a plaintiff who claims a tradesman offered to provide £300 in materials for free.
The whole process from beginning to end is well documented and added by clear pictures at various stages.
I have various bits in writing where the woman who owns the flat accepts the quote so she can never claim I offered to do it for free.
I ASKED her to find someone else, I did not REFUSE to do it. Also, an hour later her boyfriend called me to say I was fired.
To the best of my knowledge, a supplier has to have 3 chances to correct any parts that are not to satisfaction before the customer can turn to someone else.

The bit that I refused to do was something that came up during the electrical inspection. Halfway during the test, the rcd died. The other thing the inspector did not accept was the position of the control switch for the electric shower. Nothing to do with the original work. I did point out to Mr Patel that the switch should be moved but he thought it was not worth the cost.
The owner works for a big company in the city and I don’t think a court order would help her career a lot. A ccj would also be a disadvantage when you have 2 mortgages and want to change them for better conditions.

In itself it might not be worth the effort but I can not afford to become known as the free installer. And then there is the principal. I never do budget work, only topquality. My work is by the book, a to z, with no corners cut anywhere. I do not rip people off, even though I am not cheap, and do not accept people trying to take me for a ride.

I will be grateful for any tips, help, or advice whether general about the issue of recovering cost or specific to this case.

Thanks again

Ben

 

[simoniris]

Do you have a solicitor who can act for you?
I know it sounds lavish but it really is the best thing to do.
Just give everything to the solicitor and let them sort it, that way you won't be wasting earning time or spare time trying to sort it and won't get yourself wound up over it.
If we have issues with non payment it's straight to the solicitor and job done. If we're fighting a losing battle we find out straight away so don't waste any more time on it.
If you do want to go down small claims court route it's a fairly simple system but I would recommend letting a solicitor deal with it for you.
I'm not sure but you may even get the costs back if [and obviously when] found in your favour anyway.

 

[Bahco]

My advice would be to keep the pressure on very gently and to proceed with the small claims court.

Perseverence will get you a result.

Also a few POLITE early morning calls will send them a message that you will not be going away in a hurry.

Any correspondence should be sent via recorded delivery. The psychological effect will play on their mind.

 

[al4x]

look up Thomas Higgins on google. They will do you a 14day demand letter for £2 or something like that. That is usually enough to get a reaction if not look up money clain online and submit claim through the small claims court. you don't need a solicitor etc you just need documented evidence of everything and you'll be fine

 

[gas4you]

As posted before, I always send 3 or 4 reminders of late payment, charged at £20 + vAT per reminder after the first one, and if they still do not pay I then send a final demand for all monies outstanding , including the reminder fees, to be paid in full within 7 days of the date of the letter, staing that if they don't pay I will issue a claim in the courst and this will affedct their credit rating and possibility of obtaining any future credit and that the deatilas of this 'debt' will be logged on their credit report held by liscensed credit agencies.

Never failed YET Even worked on a solicitors firm that owed me money, so it must be legal

 

[Cremeegg]

Fine line to tread but if things start getting legal the early morning visits however polite can get thrown back at you as harrassment.

 

[Mac-the-Wrench]

Record all phone conversations, and let them know you are doing it beforehand, then it is admissable in court.

If they say others have inspected the work, and then allege things, ask for a copy of the report that they received.

If they say others had to correct work, ask for a copy of the invoice.

Register your complaint with the CAB.

One thing that the judge will take into account is who is being the most reasonable, in how they are dealing with the other party.

If the other party alleges intimidation, or harassment, ask them for dates, times, and the full circumstances in writing.

If you appear to reach a stalemate, it's time to hand it over to a solicitor.

 

[bengasman]

She has hired a lawyer and insinuated all sorts, like poor workmanship, harassment, blackmail. A bit unlikely that they will ask for inspection, as I had to do a compulsory riddor because after I installed the heating, the proverbial polish plumbers changed the gas and electric and left a gasleak which I discovered. A gasleak due to poor workmanship is a compulsory riddor according to my books.
I asked many times in writing to give me the name and address of the people who carried out the illegal and she continued to avoid answering about either money or names.
As she was dumb enough to do all the emails from her work computer, it will automatically bring up the name of her employer if and when it goes to court. It seemed like a good idea to ask the CEO what he thinks of the fact that it will be evident that one of his employees has committed a criminal offence. Not good advertising when you work for a law-firm. To avoid having to deal with a miffed hot shot lawyer, he is welcome to tell me exactly what I can and what I can not do. Seems like that is in both our interests.
I don’t think you can call insisting to ask for payment harassment. Riddor is compulsory so that is the end for blackmail. Apart from that, I never said I would inform authorities if she did not pay. I told her of the various people I would contact in anyway.
I think that just leaves the fact that she knowingly hired illegal people and the fact that she has not paid the bill.
The lawyer wrote to me that only part of the bill will be paid. He did not say how much or when. They dispute the bill because of -- serious concerns – about the quality of my work. As I know that my work is spot on, I have suggested to ask a corgi inspector to give his opinion if both parties agree to accept that as binding. If they say yes to that, I should get all the dosh really quick.
I will keep everyone informed.

 

[Sirjobalot]

 

[Mac-the-Wrench]

At the moment in Scotland, the limit is set at £750 for small claims. That is changing in January 2008 to £3000. You can also claim 10% for costs incurred in bringing the case to court if you win. Unusually, Scotland is following in England's footsteps with regard to the Small Claims limit!

Anyways to my point! In scotland i believe you can only take someone to a small claims court for under £500 , It was my sister who told me this a few years back "she is a solicitor" not sure if this has changed but i do know it becomes expensive if you cant use the small claims.

 

[Sirjobalot]