Darling....Why am I getting Electric shocks off the...COOKER

[ice cold rad man]

Just for info relating to Dave12's posting

Had a weird problem recently getting electric shocks off the oven frontage, and also off central heating pipes. And the biggest one of all was a right belter from the cold water tap on the outside of the house.

Had a sparky round to check things over. He spent about 20 minutes checking this and that with his multimeter-type-device. Scratched his head and walked away. We had tried everything from switching off all the lights and then on again in sequence, to switching off every other appliance in the house including heating etc.

The problem was intermittent - and that was the main ballache about it.

Then I was staring at the appliances in the kitchen. I noticed the kettle was off it's base, but the base was connected and switched on.

I touched the cooker - ouch.

I switched the kettle socket off. Nothing.

Back on again. Ow ya! Tried a different socket. Bas..!

So that was it - something had shorted or changed inside the base unit of the kettle, which was feeding back into the mains circuit.

Needless to say we have a new kettle now!

Maybe this info might help someone else in the future. All I can conclude from this experience is - intermittent faults must be appliance related.

 

[breezer]

i bet water got into the base, after all is was a kettle.

I also presume you do not have an rcd?

 

[flashbang]

Surely, this must have made the earth live, that's why they were getting belts from taps......
I would suggest that the house isn't earthed properly, and that the kettle has NOT solved the problem, only removed the cause... It strikes me that should anything electrical short to ground, then the just about anything in the house thats metallic will become live again.......
This should really be very carefully checked out.
I am not an electrician, but I thought the idea of earthing, is to take electricity safely away in the event of a device failure! And/or cause the trip/fuse to shut down the power.
Flashbang.

 

[breezer]

Surely, this must have made the earth live, that's why they were getting belts from taps......
I would suggest that the house isn't earthed properly, and that the kettle has NOT solved the problem, only removed the cause... It strikes me that should anything electrical short to ground, then the just about anything in the house thats metallic will become live again.......
This should really be very carefully checked out.
I am not an electrician, but I thought the idea of earthing, is to take electricity safely away in the event of a device failure! And/or cause the trip/fuse to shut down the power.
Flashbang.

flashbang, you missed the point.

water getting into the kettle base has put a "partial short " to earth, but as i said "i take it you have no RCD?" so the answer to that must be yes.

so by removing the cause (kettle) they have indeed solved the problem.

a fuse will only blow if it is a dead short, but as it was bolied water it was not causing a dead short so no fuse blows

 

[flashbang]

Breezer, are you saying that a partial short to earth, will allow a current to flow and cause the pipes etc to become live?
If so, I presume the voltage on the pipes, sink, taps etc, will be the full 230volts? and providing the current does not exceed the fuse rating this will continue until the water dries out, or the power is switched off?
I'm very glad I have an RCD!!
I appreciate your previous answer, and look forward to hopefully learning a little more.
Thanks. Flashbang.

 

[breezer]

basicaly yes. but an rcd would have tripped by now

 

[paulh53]

flashbang, you missed the point.

a fuse will only blow if it is a dead short, but as it was bolied water it was not causing a dead short so no fuse blows,

Fuses also "Blow" because of overloads, And the "earth loop impedance" of the kitchen socket circuit needs to be checked for compliance with BS7671 to check for correct "Disconnection Times" for the type of overcurrent device protecting the kitchen sockets

 

[paulh53]

basicaly yes. but an rcd would have tripped by now

Has the RCD been periodicaly checked, Might be faulty?

 

[Syd]

Reminds me of my mother in law on Christmas Day...

We had invited her over for Christmas Dinner, and she insisted on helping us prepare the meal. I asked if she wouldn't mind doing the gravy while I was sorting out the veg.

She was content strring away at the pan, but every so often she would get a 'Crack' as a static charge jumped from her sleeve to the hob!

She was wearing rubber soled slippers and a nylon jumper (probably nylon underwear, too!) The constant stirring of the gravy induced a charge in her synthetic clothing, and when it built up enough energy it jumped from her sleeve to the pan handle

 

[sparky (sfd)]

She was content strring away at the pan, but every so often she would get a 'Crack' as a static charge jumped from her sleeve to the hob!

suppose thats one way of lighting the gas on a cooker

 

[securespark]

I tend to agree with Flashbang, Breezer.

Any current flowing to earth large enough to be felt as painful suggests there may well be a problem with earthing impedance. Disconnection time on a ring final circuit is 0.4 second. In a healthy circuit (even without rcd) that sort of current should trip the protective device.

As for adding an RCD to cure the problem, well you should not rely on an rcd to get you out of the mire. The problem needs to be tackled at its root, which I believe is a faulty earth somewhere in the property.

 

[Big_Spark]

Breezer, any water in the base part of a Kettle should cause the MCB or Fuse to pop.

Why this did not occur is for the very reason Flashbang stated, the Installtion has no proper Earth Bonding, if it did so an Earth Fault would have been caused and the MCB/Fuse would trip.

Removing the faulty appliance is only a symptom not the cause of the problem.

The Electrician who walked away was obviously not qualified or a complete fool.

I would urge a full Test and Inspect on the Installation with all remedial works recommended by it carried out asap.

 

[john1324]

your earthing arrangments need to be checked asap.

A rcd will not solve the problem

call a approved contractor only and dont call the dodgy bloke again.

get him to check the main and cross bonding conductors and there impedance to earth.

also method of eathing, as if on a PME supply the problem could be external from the house!!!

procced with caution, recomend u switch off all power now until checked.

 

[breezer]

john1324, welcome to the forum, but i suggest you read the date before you post, that was "sorted" in February 2004

 

[plugwash]

nothing earthed should be rising up to shock levels without taking out a fuse/breaker

if it does then something is badly wrong with the earthing setup

water won't nessacerally take out a fuse/mcb it all depends on the rating of that protective device and the distance between the terminals and how pure the water is