De-butchering the gas

[i_am_fubar]

I am aware of the rules regarding working on gas (and forum policy), and I would first state that that the gas supply is isolated and shut off (due to repossession). And also that any work I would carry out is to make safe what a previous DIYer has butchered.

As such, I am after some advice to simply remove a dead system. Any and all work with regard to pressurising the system and making it live WILL be done by a gas safe installer.

I am looking to remove the current copper that has been fitted to a gas point in the kitchen. And then run new copper while routing the rest of the plumbing (not connecting to a gas point)

What is the correct blanking plug to use to cap off the kitchen point? This is not to make a gas proof seal, but to prevent debris from entering the system after removal.

Are there any specifics of copper weight, solder of flux that must be used when routing gas?

If these questions contravene the forum rules, then I understand and will not expect any technical answers. However, if someone could point me in the direction of a more official information source, it would be greatly appreciated.

Fubar.

 

[swbjackson]

Running the gas pipe is considered gas work and should only be done by a gas safe registered installer. Your best bet is to get a local installer to come in and disconnect or cap off any gas pipes to allow you to do the rip out and then get them back to run the new piping.

 

[Biggles..]

So installing a copper pipe that's not connected to any live part of gas installation and has not had gas pass through it is classed as gas work?

Really?

 

[DP]

The copper you are planning to instal will eventually carry gas. How do you know your plumbing is going to be up to scratch, materials used will be suitable for gas, and if your plumbing is going to be sound. Mere fact you are asking means you do not know. Think rockets and gas explosions and you will be safe

 

[i_am_fubar]

Jackson, while I appreciate your reply, it is not helpful, as I am not going to keep getting a gas engineer back to install one piece of pipe at a time.

As I said, I am aware of the forum rules:

Gas Work includes but may not be limited to:

Anything which involves removal of a combustion chamber cover or sealed boiler case
Any work involving a
Gas pipework or any gas fitting
Gas Valve
Fan
Air Pressure Switch
Pilot
Burner
Ignition and flame recognition electrodes
Thermostat
Other Safety Controls such as thermocouples
Circuit board
Note that the definition of "Work" specifically includes decommissioning, ie removal, of gas pipe or fittings.

Please note that piping is included in this list.

I also stated that the system is shut off and discharged. I am not paying a call out charge for someone to un-screw a fitting and put another in. The gas pipe WILL be re-connected (by a gas safe installer), so it is only temporary.

I WILL be taking this old fitting off. It IS a safe job. All I am asking is for some advice to do it PROPERLY, so I don't butcher the thread and make it un-safe. If there are any latent risks, I accept them and whatever I do, will be done to make what is already there safer.

Fubar.

 

[hazetimesfive]

is the meter capped?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Whether you like it or not, it is still gas work.

 

[i_am_fubar]

Currently, all answers seem to be implying that it is, in fact, safer for me to leave the butchered, incompetent, PTFE'd compression fitting DIY gas work. Rather than remove it.

With regards to rockets and gas explosions, I'm fine with them. I've built (model) rocket engines, high pressure gas burners (non-mains) and done other high pressure plumbing. I'm aware of the risks asscociated with this.

DP, by the same argument, how does a gas installer know if their plumbing is up to scratch? They test it. Last time I checked, gas fitters don't have x-ray vision or ultra sensitive finger tips for finding micro-fissures. The only way to know if a solder fitting is sound if it visually looks ok, is to pressure test it.

Now, I don't want to start an argument. But I have had 'professional' and 'competent' people in that have done awful jobs. The idea of being held liable is only a deterent to some people.

Likewise, I had some previous work done (boiler install) where the plumber fitted water and gas with the same tube, solder and flux. I am asking if this is the norm. Or do thermaly activated fluxes need to be used, do heavier weight tubes need to be used, are there specific solders that need to be used... etc

If people are not (as it would seem) prepared to answer this, can you please point me in the direction of some good literature addressing current building codes for gas piping?

Fubar.

 

[spareshunter]

If people are not (as it would seem) prepared to answer this, can you please point me in the direction of some good literature addressing current building codes for gas piping?

Hi funbar, why not go to your local collage and ask to go on a gas ACS course and examination, all the answers to your questions are there to be found.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Professionals have the correct test equipment. We also know what materials to use.

More importantly we have the training AND insurance.


How many times have we had posters brag about how superior their skills are over any professional they apparently employed? Or consider themselves rocket scientists?

 

[i_am_fubar]

Tempted to see how much that course would cost.

And I would never, for a moment consider myself a rocket scientist. Rocket engineer maybe but not scientist

But seriously guys, I understand all the arguments coming at me and rest assured, I would never consider attempting to work on a live system or charging something that wasn't signed off by a professional.

I concur that professionals will have the right test equipment, and I will be calling on them to use it. Likewise I know they have training and insurance.

But drivers on the road have training and insurance. Doesn't stop them speeding, jumping lights, cutting people up... etc. Training (assuming it's correct) only means you CAN do a good job, doesn't mean you WILL do.

There are unscroupulous people out there who will drop their quotes by using sub-standard materials and cutting corners (Excesivly notched joists by plumbers anyone?). What does a 60 year old gas engineer care if a joint will fail in 50 years when it means he can make enough to go on a cruse?

Anyway, this is destracting from the point of my thread.

So, I will ask a more innocent question:

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/lite...ion-Tips/Domestic-gas-planning-and-sizing.pdf

http://www.ukcopperboard.co.uk/lite...on-Tips/Domestic-gas-installation-testing.pdf

Are these correct to current codes?

Also, are the thread sizes and styles in domestic blanking plugs a single, standard size, or have they changed over time?

Fubar.

 

[Corgigrouch]

But drivers on the road have training and insurance. Doesn't stop them speeding, jumping lights, cutting people up... etc. Training (assuming it's correct) only means you CAN do a good job, doesn't mean you WILL do.

Training guarantees nothing. If you have been through the training course then you are deemed to know what is needed to do whatever it is you have trained for.... If you have passed you driving test then you know that speeding, jumping lights and causing other road users to change their velocity or direction to avoid you is not right and so it makes a prosecution in the event of an accident easier.... It's all about accountability.

As you are aware that there may be an issue with your gas carcase and or appliances and you have demonstrated this awareness in public it is now your responsibility to have it checked, corrected or otherwise made safe and so it is not seen to be safer to do nothing about the situation. Gas Safe isn't about quality, it is about knowing where to point the finger when things go wrong.

 

[RigidRaider]

Agreed. A qualified "professional" could have a bad day and blow up the house, same as a stupid amateur. Less likely if he follows all the procedures but still possible.

The OP is never going to get the answer he wants to his questions.

 

[i_am_fubar]

HAHA. Yes, that about sums it up. Liability. Same reason the forum doesn't support giving advise on gas.

With regard to making it safe. That was done when the gas was shut off. So I doubt I can do anything to make it less safe providing I don't touch the point where it was shut off

I will get some pictures of what is there at the moment to show you what I'm dealing with. It's of similar quality and care to the electrics I found:

//www.diynot.com/forums/diy-disasters/death-house.363665/

If it wasn't for the fact I would need to call around a gas fitter at least 7 times to finish this job, I wouldn't even entertain the idea.

 

[Biggles..]

Dan whilst I don't agree with illegal gas work, a pipe is just a pipe!

He can run what he likes, who ever connects to the gas becomes responsible.