Death. No Bonding. No RCD. Rented.

[AndyPRK]

Discuss

I don't think they mean an immersion heater.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co....oroner-family-call-better-legislation-2819469

 

[JohnW2]

Discuss

Hmmm - it sounds as if 'the absence of earth bonding' is probably a red herring.

Kind Regards, John

 

[chivers67]

Very Sad, Landlords should have a duty of care to make sure their properties are safe if Renting them out.

 

[EFLImpudence]

They do.

 

[donrkebab]

All I can say is that since the 60's in every building I've worked in (domestic to £100million) all metalwork is bonded to earth. For many years on forums like this people have invented all sorts of reasons for not bonding. This could be the consequence of someones penny pinching.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It says he was clutching a piece of wire but does not say what it was.

"The wire and a length of copper pipe protruded from the rear and were designed to release water pressure if the boiler inside became faulty.
But a health and safety expert told the inquest that the boiler equipment and the pipe and cable had become live because of faulty immersion heater in the boiler. This would have been prevented if two safety measures had been in place - an RCD (residual current device) and earth bonding of all the metal equipment - to prevent electrocution. But neither system had been installed."

 

[JohnW2]

All I can say is that since the 60's in every building I've worked in (domestic to £100million) all metalwork is bonded to earth. For many years on forums like this people have invented all sorts of reasons for not bonding. This could be the consequence of someones penny pinching.

As I said, I suspect that the reference to 'earth bonding' may well be a red herring - or, at least, mis-described/misleading.

Indeed, it is not clear as to whether the reference to "earth bonding of all the metal equipment" really dies relate to 'main bonding' ('PEB') - it could be just talking about the earthing (to MET) of 'all the metal equipment' (which is what have been required to facilitate operation of an RCD, had one been present).

I would imagine that its very unlikely that the wiring of the 'heating element' concerned did not result in the surrounding metalwork being earthed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Very Sad, Landlords should have a duty of care to make sure their properties are safe if Renting them out.

As EFL says, we do. Since equipotential bonding has been required for quite a long time, they can't have any any qualified (and competent) electrician near the place in a long time - or if they have, they've ignored advice on the matter. Sadly it's ******** like this that get us all a bad name and additional regulatory burdens.
If this were just a case of "unlucky circumstances" I might think differently, but I would hope the landlord gets prosecuted. Unfortunately I don't think we have a charge of negligent homicide (manslaughter) in this country.

 

[donrkebab]

As I said, I suspect that the reference to 'earth bonding' may well be a red herring - or, at least, mis-described/misleading.

Indeed, it is not clear as to whether the reference to "earth bonding of all the metal equipment" really dies relate to 'main bonding' ('PEB') - it could be just talking about the earthing (to MET) of 'all the metal equipment' (which is what have been required to facilitate operation of an RCD, had one been present).

I would imagine that its very unlikely that the wiring of the 'heating element' concerned did not result in the surrounding metalwork being earthed.

Kind Regards, John

Your response demonstrates exactly my criticism, lots of words but no earthing.

 

[flameport]

Significant lack of info, and the article doesn't make it clear exactly what the circumstances were.
Another much shorter version here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-48112342
which contains more nonsense such as boilers needing to be earthed only since 1992.

Bonding shouldn't have made any difference, as any electric element would be earthed via the connection lead.
Not clear where the 'oil boiler' fits into the situation either as it was reported as a faulty electric element.

Given the 'thin copper wire' through the wall into the garden, and that this was a farmhouse - possibly a TT system with no RCD or a faulty one, and the 'wire' was originally connected to the earth electrode ?

 

[JohnW2]

Since equipotential bonding has been required for quite a long time, they can't have any any qualified (and competent) electrician near the place in a long time - or if they have, they've ignored advice on the matter.

As I keep saying, from the not-very-good information we have, I'm far from convinced that equipotential bonding (or the absence thereof) had anything to do with this sad event - particularly given that it appears that the electrocution occurred outside the property.

Indeed, speculating even more, this could be an example of a situation in which (in the absence of an RCD) main equipotential bonding within the property might possibly actually increase the risk of electric shock to someone outside, touching a (bonded) pipe emerging from the building whilst also in contact with true earth.

Unfortunately I don't think we have a charge of negligent homicide (manslaughter) in this country.

Eh? I don't know about the formal name of such an offence (it might even be as you suggest), but we surely have one?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Your response demonstrates exactly my criticism, lots of words but no earthing.

You were talking about bonding, not earthing - and, as you presumably know, they are two different things with totally different purposes. Had there been an RCD, earthing, not bonding, is what would have been needed to facilitate operation of the RCD in response to the fault - and, as I have written, it's very unlikely that the surroundings of the heating element were not earthed.

It sounds very much as if the absence of an RCD was probably the only issue which allowed this tragic event to occur (and, of course, to the best of my knowledge, even today the regulations do not actually require RCD-protection of the likes of immersion heaters)

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

I guess the external wire was once connected to an earth rod.

And when touched with another fault making it live, caused the death.

 

[JohnW2]

I guess the external wire was once connected to an earth rod. ... And when touched with another fault making it live, caused the death.

We really just don't know - the information we have is simply not adequate.

If what you say (similar to what flameport suggested) were correct it would seem pretty unlikley that a fault would result in a dangerous PD arising between a conductor which had previously been connected to an earth rod (hence presumably connected to the installation's MET and CPCs) and a pipe (which almost certainly will {should} have been earthed via the faulty heater's CPC ... but is that what happened, anyway?

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

He didn’t grab the earthed end.
Well I guess he could of. And the live pipe.

He grabbed the consumers wire connected to installation.

The artical says 3 faults present. Well maybe 2