Difficult pump change

[Mottie]

How would you even unjam or bleed that pump in its present position. Move it and have done with it!

 

[ChrisJP]

I think that the OP's problem is that to move it, he has to disconnect and remove the existing pump - which he can't properly access because of its position.
I would look at seeing if the existing pump location can be by-passed by rejigging the pipework, and then fitting a new pump in a more accessible location. Hard to see from the 2 picures whether this is going to be possible.

 

[livingstoned]

Thanks all

Sort of. What I mean is, if possible, work out a new accessible location for the pump and fit the new one there, and alter pipework underneath from old pump

If I could "alter pipework" I could access the pump. There's about 3 inches from that rear 22mm comp nut to the brick wall, and a 15mm Tee already in it. Those are 2ft/600 from where you are at the front of the cylinder.

That looks a right pig of a job! I know it will be aggro but surely it could all be done in one day if you took the cylinder out and repositioned the new one so it’s not like you’ll be without hot water for long. You may have been lucky - I doubt a new one will last another 42 years. May be a silly question but can it be left in place for water to just flow through and a new pump fitted in an easier location?

You probably could Mottie, or I could have done 30 years ago. Now I'd be seized up by the time I'd drained the cylinder. I use a Zimmer frame to get about and do stairs on all fours.

Look at using a multi-tool, if you decide to split the nuts. I will not matter too much if you damage a little the male threads, so long as you don't damage the faces, where they seal. The threads can be cleaned up with a thread file.

You mean like a Dremel? I had one once.... If I can't get through with a small hacksaw I'll buy one. I should n't doing more than nicking the edge of the face on the pump valve, I think.

Any way to get a breaker bar, or heavy square shank screwdriver into the crows foot, at an angle.
Bring it to the right hand side of the valve spindle and lever it against the spindle. That way you are applying pressure to the nut in one direction, and turning the valve in the other direction, which might be enough to crack the 22mm open?

Yes good thought, I wondered the same. A 1/4" extension should go through the 1/2" sq hole I think. If the valve just spins it'll hit the floor at half way round!

If you can’t get at them to get them undone, will you be able to get to them to tighten them up?

New stuff is easy, with appropriate goo. I could put a new valve/pump/valve assembly in, though I'd have to cut the 22mm and use a slip coupler.

I have crow foot spanners (32mm (for 22mm comp nuts ) and 52mm(2 1/16th) (for pump nuts) so I stand a chance. I can't even get Bahco grips on the pump nuts as is.

Have you tried giving pump nuts several hard taps with a hammer/ chisel? First thing I do on pumps not unknown for nuts to then come undone by hand.

Good thought, have tried a bit, but can only reach a small part of the circle.

If you can get the nuts loose, you may be able to twist the pump enough so it is facing upwards enough to allow access to the pump head bolts, then you may be able to just replace the head.

That being said, no matter what - and I do appreciate there are physical difficulties - it really is going to be nigh on impossible to service that properly with any degree of confidence that there won't be problems with leaks post the work, without taking that cylinder out.

The pump is old - a Myson Unit 3. No idea what would fit it. I may have a cp63 somewhere, but those old ones' back ends had a rotary valve on them, so probably different. Was thinking it would leak if the pump had only been spun round, but if I could release the 22mm nuts that could conceivably work .

Only other thought I had was to file a notch in the 52mm pump valves and use a hammer and cold chisel to tap them round, If the nots broke, fine.


I used to have one of these, paid about £20 back in the day. Now £68 or so. Memory tells me they fit just about anything but are a bit springy. Anyone remember/used one?

I think that the OP's problem is that to move it, he has to disconnect and remove the existing pump - which he can't properly access because of its position.
I would look at seeing if the existing pump location can be by-passed by rejigging the pipework, and then fitting a new pump in a more accessible location. Hard to see from the 2 pictures whether this is going to be possible.

First part is exactly right.
Once the pump's out I could theoretically put 22 elbows where the valve connections are, perhaps in Hep, as it's easier to get past all the obstructing pipes etc, to somewhere further up the wall.
The boiler needs changing as it's also 42 years old ( things just don't last, do they?) so I don't feel theurge to change the design at the moment, that can wait; It's cold!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You mean like a Dremel? I had one once.... If I can't get through with a small hacksaw I'll buy one. I should n't doing more than nicking the edge of the face on the pump valve, I think.

No, a multi-tool has a vibrating blade at the end, rather that a rotating blade. Like this....

The blade rocks rapidly, back and forth, so you could offer it vertically down onto the nuts, just hold the tool still, and it will cut. I paid around £25 for mine, in Lidl, nowt else works like they do.

 

[livingstoned]

No, a multi-tool has a vibrating blade at the end, rather that a rotating blade. Like this.... View attachment 368998

The blade rocks rapidly, back and forth, so you could offer it vertically down onto the nuts, just hold the tool still, and it will cut. I paid around £25 for mine, in Lidl, nowt else works like they do.

Ah right, . I have one somewhere, used once to cut a tile out. Never seen it since. Mine was a Bosch from B&Q, about £30, 20 years ago. What colour are their boxes??!!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Ah right, . I have one somewhere, used once to cut a tile out. Never seen it since. Mine was a Bosch from B&Q, about £30, 20 years ago. What colour are their boxes??!!

Blue, but some are green I think.

 

[livingstoned]

Posted a version of this earlier. Yes I know people will be quick to say it shouldn't be like that, but the engineer who did it estimated it would last a long time. It did. He thought he'd move house.... He didn't.

The by-pass has always been closed (15mm twisty one in the pic), and grey is a brick wall. Yellow has radiator-oxide-containing sludge which attracts a magnet.

"Blue, but some are green I think."
Yeah, they change - I lost track!!

 

[Madrab]

What colour are their boxes??!!

Domestic use ones are green - pro version are blue - @ £30 you'll be looking for a green one.

 

[opps]

Ah right, . I have one somewhere, used once to cut a tile out. Never seen it since. Mine was a Bosch from B&Q, about £30, 20 years ago. What colour are their boxes??!!

DIY Bosch are green, the pro versions are blue. From memory the DIY range product codes start with the letter P, whereas the pro ones start with G.

 

[livingstoned]

Slipped on the stairs, can't stay on feet, so it will have to wait a bit,
When you haven't done something for years, all the little things which used to be at hand, aren't any more. I want a wet vac ready. I took out the Wickes one I used to use a lot, turned it on and smoke came out. Undid a drain cock and it had a fibre washer for some reason - which shredded. D'you think I can find a new one?? Grrr.
I've drained to below the level of the pump, but it keeps dripping from the drain point. 20 drips a minute. How is that possible!! I don't like the probable answer - perforated cylinder coil. Will crack the lower union to see....

 

[Old Salt]

If people could give a better idea of where they live someone may be prepared to pop round and help for some of these smaller jobs especially where the affected person can do it but just need some guidance/supervision or someone with more agility.

I am not suggesting that we fit a new kitchen but this one sounds as if Livingstoned could have someone crack off the nuts he could manage the change himself.

Also not looking to put tradesmen out of business but you guys must know who you could recommend in your local areas.

Food for thought?

 

[Mottie]

I think he's had this trouble with the pump since before the new year. He must be freezing in these temps we’re having right now. I hope he's got some other form of heating or is wrapping up well.

 

[opps]

Slipped on the stairs, can't stay on feet, so it will have to wait a bit,
When you haven't done something for years, all the little things which used to be at hand, aren't any more. I want a wet vac ready. I took out the Wickes one I used to use a lot, turned it on and smoke came out. Undid a drain cock and it had a fibre washer for some reason - which shredded. D'you think I can find a new one?? Grrr.
I've drained to below the level of the pump, but it keeps dripping from the drain point. 20 drips a minute. How is that possible!! I don't like the probable answer - perforated cylinder coil. Will crack the lower union to see....

Hope you recover ASAP, best of luck.

Apropos the wet vac, the brushes may have worn down and the springs might be hitting the commutator. Unless you are able to make your own brushes, it might be cheaper to purchase a new vac. Sorry, unfortunately, places like Wickes buy in bulk from China and seldom care about customers being able to service the products.

 

[livingstoned]

If people could give a better idea of where they live someone may be prepared to pop round and help for some of these smaller jobs especially where the affected person can do it but just need some guidance/supervision or someone with more agility.

I am not suggesting that we fit a new kitchen but this one sounds as if Livingstoned could have someone crack off the nuts he could manage the change himself.

Also not looking to put tradesmen out of business but you guys must know who you could recommend in your local areas.

Food for thought?

Good thought, I'm KT3, NE Surrey.

I'll be going for a combi in the summer I reckon. A friend has just had a dead-simple (OK, I know, it's relative) 20 yr old GW combi swapped for a new GW combi because GW said some parts may not be available.
As simple as a boiler change gets really, £3400. He was there 4 hours. I think that's too much. I had to explain the programmer for her because he CBA.
But there will be a job here for someone who's at least "fairly" good and "reasonable"! We've all seen bad cheap plumbers. But I digress...,

Yeah wet vacs are cheap, a small one would be handy. Are there any which pump the water out, any more?

The dripping water is very clean. I'm convinced it's a passing coil on the cylinder . Hey ho. Looking at the water heads it'll mean a tiny bit going from the DCW to the heating. Bad, but not critical for a couple of months - no idea how long it has been like that.

Makes the pump change messy if it takes any time though. It would be hard (access) to put a cap on the lower cylinder union, so I guess I'll have to try the thing I discounted at the very beginning which is turning off the pump valves. Shock horror! What a mad suggestion, nobody expects that to work after 42 years, right??
I do have a long reach ratchet spanner that'll fit the pump spindles, at least. (All the gear and no idea?? - SHUT UPPPPP!!)

Yes @Mottie it's chilly, but looking at the news .. ... .. it's not the greatest hardship. We do have a 7kW convector gas fire + fanny electrics. Wife moans it's cold, of course, but buggers off to her mates.

 

[muggles]

That was a thought but it's not very appealing.
The cyl would also be a pig to get out. There's nowhere to put it - it's in a multi purpose room which is full. And we'd lose HW for the duration. I'm old/arthritic/fibromyalgia (which I used to think was al in the mind) so it would take me some time, to be without HW.

I used to do some plumbing, never split a nut though. not much to lose I guess.
In summer we'll probably go for a combi but if not, the pump can stay where it is. If the next one lasts 42 years as well, I'll be 111 yrs old.



So, reposition the pump before I remove it?

Repositioning would be a good idea. It'd take me around 2-3 hours to drain everything, take the cylinder out, replace the pump, and put everything back in again. I realise you're keen to do this yourself, but it does sound like you're struggling quite a lot here...

Your friend's boiler replacement sounds like a right hatchet job