dirt and air in system (Meme21)

[Meme21]

Following all the problems I had with being left with a dirty system following a the new boiler installation, I got another RGI in to do a power clean of the system. He was very good and thorough, not just doing the power clean but taking some of the radiators off the cleaning them separately because they were so caked. He also fitted an automatic bypass valve for me. I was very impressed.

Then the problems started. When finished he switched the system on and my timer was blank no display of any kind but the central heating seemed to be stuck on. No problem, I controlled the temperature overnight with the room stat and he came the next day (today) to fit a new timer. Then all the problems start.

He could not get the new timer to control the system, everything permanently on. The gate valve to the hot water cylinder was not switching off nor was the hot water or the central heating. He spent a whole afternoon fiddling with the wiring everywhere, in the boiler, in the wiring box in the airing cupboard, in timer and then said that he thought it was ok but if it wasn't he would come back next weekend. When he was messing with the wires he just kept saying, well we can get rid of that wire can't we, I'll take that out because I can't see what that is doing. ARGHHHHH!

I am left with a system which is completely and utterly ruined.

The room stat doesn't work - no green light.
Neither the central heating or hot water will switch off.
The pump won't switch off.

Everything is just full on!!! I am controlling the system (when I have it switched on by just turning the boiler right down and then manually turning everything off when I go to bed.)

I have had to switch the boiler off and the power to the pump - I have also turned the manual red wheel valve on the hot water tank return off because the water was almost at boiling point.

So - do I call another RGI or an electrician. Nothing, none of the electrics, are now working together and I am at the point of hanging myself from the nearest rafters!!! How on earth can I get this problem solved!!!!!

 

[Nige F]

This thread would have been alot shorter without the slanging match and the blatant advertising by dear old tony Agile

I think everyone on this forum now knows your prices and how you like the "DIAGNOSTIC" payment from certain people over the phone before you even go out to them .

Yeah but it makes for fun reading Not so Happyplumber, then

 

[Meme21]

Ok - so someone (on the WB website as an accredited engineer) came out this morning to have a look. He said that when the boiler was installed in December the wiring was all wrong and that I need an electrician. He would go away and find someone for me and he would then come and change the gate valve. Phew - at last someone who doesn't automatically just say "I can do that".

Last night, for the first time since the boiler was installed, I noticed that when I switched the boiler off (only way to switch of ch at the moment) the pump kept running. When I mentioned this he said it was normal for the pump to run continuously I thought that at the most a pump should only run for half an hour after the heating goes off. Could someone clarify this?

Thanks

Val

 

[Steady]

Your boiler has two sets of wiring terminals inside. First set (L,N and E) are the incoming mains power to the boiler.
The other set of terminals (3 of them- LS,LR and NS) take power to your wiring centre(from the LS terminal) which basically feeds the programmer which controls your motorised valve(s).
Then on the demand of your thermostats (Cylinder stat and roomstat) power returns to the boiler from the motorised valve(s)(orange wire) via the LR terminal to switch on pump and boiler.the pump is designed to run on after the boiler has been running but only for a couple of minutes- this is controlled by internal circuitry in the pcb.
The last 'engineer' has scr*wed something up-(hopefully fairly simple) in the wiring centre or at the boiler terminals. I suspect he has got The LR and LS terminals mixed up somewhere along the way.

 

[Meme21]

I was told that the way the boiler has been connected to the mains supply through an off/on switch next to it - wire dangling under the boiler, is incorrect and I may need a new power supply for it? Also funny is that at the moment it is taking about 10 minutes for the boiler to respond to the room stat whereas before it was almost instant.

The electrics are well and truly scr---d Don't get me wrong, the RGI that came in Friday and yesterday (different to original installer) did a brilliant job of cleaning out the system but now none of the electrics work.

 

[Meme21]

Have found that room stat has no effect on turning boiler off at all, so boiler isn't talking to any of the electrics, pump, roomstat, timer etc.

 

[Happyplumber]

Oh my god your not having much luck are you .where u based Meme in what area?Lets see if someone here who actually knows what they are doing can come and sort this out for you

This is getting ridiculous you seem to find the bigggest numpties out there and i dont know how with law of averages you would have thought by now you would have found someone decent,the second powerflusher from what i have read has messed up your wiring and now the heating controls need to be sorted,how can the timer be knackered when it was working perfectly before he flushed the system

 

[matt1e]

hi
I've jumped over from your other thread
couple of questions
what make/model is the boiler?
do you have any zone valves fitted?
do you have a multimeter?
is it possible for you to upload some photos?

Matt

 

[DP]

I would not be looking for an electrician ( certainly not the ones who are not familiar with control wiring within boilers and system controls). Your boiler handbook will almost certainly suggest how the controls should be wired.

Often a mountain is made of molehills when some. certain people are invited to see/ comment on an installation.

I was told that the way the boiler has been connected to the mains supply through an off/on switch next to it - wire dangling under the boiler, is incorrect and I may need a new power supply for it?

It could well be splitting hair.

Also funny is that at the moment it is taking about 10 minutes for the boiler to respond to the room stat whereas before it was almost instant.

A motorised valve will take around 30 seconds to open and activate the appliance. If the boiler was firing right away, I would be looking at motorised valve connections.

A point no one should forget, is the fact that the system was functioning previously without any difficulty. OK, three rads have been replaced or added, but that should not result in malfunctions that have be highlighted in this thread.

It should not take 10 minutes for the boiler to come to life, nor should the pump be running when boiler is OFF

 

[Meme21]

Oh my god your not having much luck are you .where u based Meme in what area?Lets see if someone here who actually knows what they are doing can come and sort this out for you

This is getting ridiculous you seem to find the bigggest numpties out there and i dont know how with law of averages you would have thought by now you would have found someone decent,the second powerflusher from what i have read has messed up your wiring and now the heating controls need to be sorted,how can the timer be knackered when it was working perfectly before he flushed the system

I am based in East Kent. The guy who did the power flushing did a really good thorough job of cleaning out the system. All I know is that when he switched the power back on to the system the timer had no read out, the central heating was stuck permanently on and the water off, although the gate valve to the hot water tank was not operating and the water heating to a very very high temperature. Have now turned the hot water off at the hot water tank return pipe via manual valve. The guy was anxious to fix things and spent most of a day trying to rewire everything but the more he did the worse it got. He fitted a new timer but that was exactly the same as the old one and this morning it had no read out on it at all. The pump just runs continually even when the boiler is switched off.

I am now controlling everything via the boiler thermostat and the manual return valve on the hot water tank return. Tonight I will just have to switch the boiler off and the power to the pump

The guy who came out today - who is accredited by WBosch for heaven sake so if he is no good what do I do - is getting in touch with an electrician. He suspects that the wiring put in place when the boiler was installed was rubbish and the whole system may need rewiring. Certainly the boiler isn't talking to anything else on the system, although it was prior to being switched off for the power flush.

I have got the point where I feel I can't trust anyone at all. When one problem is solved another crops up. As I said previously, this is now making me feel physically ill and I just want to run away from it. It is not for lack of wanting to pay people, it's just the people that I pay make a real mess of things.

 

[Meme21]

hi
I've jumped over from your other thread
couple of questions
what make/model is the boiler?
do you have any zone valves fitted?
do you have a multimeter?
is it possible for you to upload some photos?

Matt

Hi Matt

The make of the boiler is a Worcester Bosch 40 cdi on an open vented conventional system. I have TVR's fitted on most radiators. I don't know what a multimeter is I will try and get some photos but I don't think they will tell you much.

Problem is each of the two RGI's I have had are Gas Safe registered. They seem to have both made a complete mess of things, (last RGI was recommended by a neighbour) so my question is "how do you find a good gas engineer?!!!!"

Val

Thanks

Val

 

[matt1e]

hi Val
these are zone valves?

they have two ports

this is a mid position valve?

this one has three ports

I don't know what a multimeter is

Then I think that you are going to have to get someone in,but A few pointers for you since you say the the wiring was messed around with
in the boiler
the pump should not run all the time it should only run for a short while after the boiler has shut down (to get rid of latent heat)
the pump connects to terminal block ST2 on the boiler and nowhere else
if it is connected to the correct terminals (ST2) and your plumber hasn't reconnected it elsewhere then either there is a problem with your boilers over run facility or the wiring to the other terminals is incorrect
a permanent live and neutral (from the spur unit)are connected to the terminals L and N (not Ls ,Lr or Ns)nowhere else but these two terminals(its likely that these connections have now been mixed up)
terminals Ls and Ns are usually used to supply a permanent live and neutral to external components eg time clock, wiring centre etc (but sometimes they dont get used and the clock/wiring centre supply is taken directly from the spur)
terminal Lr is the terminal that tells the boiler to fire if this terminal is live then the boiler will be on,there is a link from this terminal to Ls when the boiler is supplied that has to be removed when you have external controls as in your case make sure that it has not been put back in
where the call to fire to Lr comes from depends on what sort of system you have take a look at the photos of the valves and tell us what you have

Matt
edit just noticed steady has covered some of this already