Disappointed with finish

[Notch7]

It might be worth posting in the plasterers forum, its a quite active forum with pro guys contributing

https://www.plasterersforum.com

 

[chriselevate]

Thanks for all the help and input guys. So a few answers to the questions posted. He petered me for the money and I've given him over half of the job money. I'm not happy with this and I don't think he deserves a penny considering how bad the finish is and how much money it'll take ripping off what he's done and putting right but I guess I'm too nice. The problem is I think I'll need to stand my ground to with with hold the remaining payment. I know he'll offer to put it right but as previous comments on here have have suggested, he can't be trusted to create a good finish.

I think what he's good at it getting a good smooth finish but his evenness and overall straight, square internal edges are awful. My builder has been round and recommend I use someone else and thinks it's wise to bring the ceiling down, walls back off and let someone decent re board and plaster it. The last plasterer wasn't recommended but him btw! He's going to send his plasterer round tomorrow. I want the new plasterer to promise and agree that unless it's perfect (and not like it currently is) he won't get paid. Call me fussy but I want a square and professional looking finish. I don't thinks it's achievable. Sadly it'll now be 3 days work for my builder to bring down the ceiling, take the walls back to block and get rid of all of the stuff the last guys put on.

In answer to other questions on here. I was a ceiling, two walls and a small return that was plastered. Interestingly... the small return is actually uneven in places. All in all it's a terrible job to be quite honest and if I was gutsy and tough enough I should have told him he wasn't getting paid for the job as we agreed that the finish I wanted was perfect and I specifically asked him that in corners of the ceiling I wanted them flat rather than dipping down (too much plaster) so the corners are square and not warped.

Hopefully he'll agree that the remaining money should be waved but I guess I need to work out the best words to use to suggest that.

Thanks for the help and advice.

 

[Doggit]

Woah, slow down Chis. You don't need to take the ceiling down whatsoever; just overboard it, and if you're builder can't understand that, then get rid of him as well. It'll take maybe 15 minutes working out where the joist are, but it's very do-able, and it will eliminate any issues that the previous plasterer argued over. Alternatively, have a chat with the new plasterer, and just pva the ceiling, and put on either a thickish coat of plaster, or a leveling one, and then a finish one.

Talk to the plasterer, not the builder, as he's the one that can (or can't) achieve the finish you want.

 

[chriselevate]

Thanks, good advice. The thought behind it was.... I've got a ceiling that getting worse with every coat/board that's put up and I've got 2 walls that have been overboarded and two walls that are the original plaster (some of these are cracked tbh too). So in order to get a A1 finish I think the walls will need to come off and if I'm getting a skip then I was thinking that bringing the 2 boards off the ceiling would also be a good idea. Let me know what you and others think. I know it's difficult to make a judgement without seeing it, so I know I'm asking a lot. I've got a plasterer coming to have a look today but having been burnt now I'm just trying to get an idea of a strategy for getting this sorted.

Thanks again.

 

[Notch7]

Thanks, good advice. The thought behind it was.... I've got a ceiling that getting worse with every coat/board that's put up and I've got 2 walls that have been overboarded and two walls that are the original plaster (some of these are cracked tbh too). So in order to get a A1 finish I think the walls will need to come off and if I'm getting a skip then I was thinking that bringing the 2 boards off the ceiling would also be a good idea. Let me know what you and others think. I know it's difficult to make a judgement without seeing it, so I know I'm asking a lot. I've got a plasterer coming to have a look today but having been burnt now I'm just trying to get an idea of a strategy for getting this sorted.

Thanks again.

Dont forget you cant put plasterboard in a mixed waste skip, unless you want to fork out for a picking charge. Ask the skip company for a dedicated plasterboard skip, or if you have other waste too, then ask if you can have a normal skip and a bulk bag for the plasterboard to place on top -some companies will let you do that.

I wouldnt suggest telling your new plasterer you want it perfect or you wont pay him! You might find his rate will be astronomical or he wont do the job

'perfect' is not a measurable quantity, you need to define what you expect. It is plastering so there will be some acceptable tolerance. Ideally it would be best if he gets the boards up and you are around so you can approve them before they are set and skimmed.

Regarding the ceiling, if the joists are really uneven, then they really need to be packed out so they are all level. Im not sure a plasterer will do that, it needs a builder or chippie to pin on some packers if its really bad. Of course, the existing boards may be bowing down with a gap between them and the joists, making it seems worse.

Surprisingly not all plasterers will do tacking of plasterboard, some consider dry walling to be a specialist trade and plastering is wet plastering only, either skimming or bonding.

 

[stevethespreader]

I know it's difficult to make a judgement without seeing it

Thanks again.

take some pics so we can have a look

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I said that I'd have thought that using tapered edged boards this would have helped. He told me he doesn't (and never does) use tapered boards he always uses square edged boards. I find this odd because I've thought that one of the points of the tapered boards was there to run the screws and take the scrim so it gives the ability to get a nice flat finish.

Taper edge boards were developed specifically for taping and jointing where only the joints are filled and sanded. For conventional skim work square edge boards are used - screw heads are sunk just beneath the surface whilst the scrim tape is far thinner than the 3mm or so of plaster which will be applied. Taper edge boards are also a bit weaker at the edge (because they are thinner) which is a decided disadvantage when overboarding a ceiling, I'd say

If there are potential problems with the ceiling being out then the only approach is to get a laser out and check it. If it's really bad it could always be battened out and the battens packed perfect and overboarded - but I can tell you from experience that it's an absolute PIA job to do. I'm not a plasterer, I'm a chippie, and packing/battening/ boarding out was traditionally something we did (although these days it's as likely to be done by dry liners as mentioned above) - most of the plasterers I've worked with wouldn't want to get involved and probably wouldn't have the tools for the job, eiother

 

[stevethespreader]

Taper edge boards are also a bit weaker at the edge (because they are thinner) which is a decided disadvantage when overboarding a ceiling, I'd say

this is negligible and is countered buy the fact that you have more deeper plaster covering the scrim

 

[roy c]

I disagree that tapered edged boards are weaker, used and handled right there's no problem with them. I also think you get a firmer joint on the edges by taping them and skimming flush with the boards before you skim .Just my opinion as I have used quite a lot of tapered edged boards, and always jointed that way...

 

[darrington]

I think you get a far better job with tapered boards. As Roy said, tape the joint and bring the tapered edges out flush, then skim the boards. I've worked in many older houses where they only had square edged boards, and quite often, there was a "bump" in the plaster where the square edges met. Most joints way back were 'hessian scrimmed', so a bump was inevitable. I've also seen modern day square edged boards that have been skimmed, and the plaster is so thin at the joints, you can see the scrim tape ghosting through. Give me TAPERED EDGES anyday.

 

[chriselevate]

Thanks for the help and input. Interesting discussions about tapered boards. I have to admit that this does seem like part of the issue that was mentioned by darrington.... "I've worked in many older houses where they only had square edged boards, and quite often, there was a "bump" in the plaster where the square edges met." As mentioned, I would have thought the approach would have been to use tapered boards where possible, scrim the join (along the tapered edge), apply a trowel full of multi and them skim the ceiling.

Regarding pulling them all down, one of my builders plastered has advised that a third board won't really work and it'll end up popping. He also said he could tell that the plastered has only applied one coat. I'm not sure what he means here. When I was taught to plaster I was taught to apply my first coat and then use approx half the amount of multi on my second coat. I'm guessing he might have been meaning that he tried to do it all in one coat?! Is this even possible?

I'm trying to get another plasterer round at the weekend to see what he thinks and if he thinks he could get a better finish. Having looked at it a few times now it really doesn't look good and it looks "out" all over. I'm guessing that taking all walls back to block and pulling the ceiling down may well be the best option here.

Thanks.

 

[chriselevate]

This possibly gives an example of the finish I'm unhappy with. You might be able to see that the ceiling edge is not square

 

[Doggit]

I'm guessing that taking all walls back to block and pulling the ceiling down may well be the best option here

And it may be not only throwing good money after bad, it may also be far more work than necessary. If the new guys good enough, he may just put another coat on, so try and keep an open mind.

 

[stevethespreader]

This possibly gives an example of the finish I'm unhappy with. You might be able to see that the ceiling edge is not square

from where im sitting it looks like a half decent job as i said earlier ceiling lines can be leveled out with some easifill thats not to bad at all tbf to start talking about overboarding of pulling it down is crazy the line is out by a fraction and hardly noticeable i reckon you have been to harsh on the spread

 

[phatboy]

Unless it looks a lot worse up close, that looks quite decent....