DIYer wanting to learn - would it be worthwhile?

[jpdw]

Is it worth a DIYer taking some proper electrical course(s)?

With a big kitchen refurb being planned for next year, wanting to do a lot of it ourselves, including a lot of the electrical works. There are other bits in the house that could do with improvements (spurs off spurs etc). So lots of "notifiable" jobs but anway, notifiable or not it must all be done properly.

So I'm wondering if I should do take one/some courses to learn how to do this work correctly ??

I'm not a complete novice, having done things like running fused spurs and am willing to have a go with bigger work --- BUT I want to ensure I'm doing it correctly (if for no other reason than getting it wrong can be dangerous).

Have any other DIYer done this & if so was it worthwhile?
Any advice/suggestions from the pros?

 

[jpdw]

oops. lots of waffle removed. must waffle less...

 

[rjb]

It sounds like you don't want to be a qualified electrician so going through the City and Guilds route and getting Part P etc will probably not be what you want. Unless you want to know about polyphase systems, inductance, capacitance, oh and loads and loads and loads of health and safety!!!

About 18 months ago I completely re-did my kitchen / diner and bathroom which were major works.


I was being quoted in region of £2500 for what we wanted. I found a qualified electrician who was sympathetic to my 'working' with him, IE basically being his apprentice for a project. The fellow happened to be a full-time fireman as well and ran his own electrical company on his 4 days off or after night shifts. He was more than happy for me to help as he had more work than time available so it helped him out to.

This reduced the cost considerably, I learnt more in that time than a college course has done in 12 months.

Incidentally after this project I decided to change directions and started doing C&G 2330.

Don't be afraid to ask electrician if you can buddy up and negogiate a good price, explain you are pretty competent.

If you want to learn more then you would be better off getting some good books. If you want any recommendations please ask and I will link you to some good ones. (there are planty of terrible electricty books out there. I should know I bought a lot of them without getting recommendation)

 

[jpdw]

It sounds like you don't want to be a qualified electrician so going through the City and Guilds route and getting Part P etc will probably not be what you want.

I suppose I'm trying to work what the time/money investment would need to be to gain levels of formal competance that would be beneficial to me in doing good quality work on my own home.

Part-P self-cert is unrealistic/unnecessary, but from my reading on here I think there are levels of Competance before that - it's those that I'm wondering if they would be worthwhile.

Thanks for the input rjb. Based on your experiences, if you had not decided to take your change of direction, would you found any courses useful for your kitchen job? You mention books... What would your 3 or 5 most useful recommendations be?

 

[rjb]

The course is very good for getting the principles of electricity (Ohm's law, series / parallel circuits, power etc) You need a good grounding (no pun) in this area so you understand what you are doing. There is also a lot of stuff that whilst being interesting, I know I will never use again. Doing practical stuff whilst useful is fine in principle, but real life installations are not on a sheet of 8ft MDF screwed to the wall!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-...bs_sr_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196676777&sr=8-7

The above book is written by the chief examiner of the City and guild 2330 course and it reflects the course material. Have a look at the search inside to see content and hense course content. It is well written, and better than the ratings given. I would buy this for definite.

From a more practical point of view, get these two books by NICEIC. For what you want they would be ideal.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Snags-Solut...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196676961&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Snags-Solut...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196676985&sr=1-2

The next two I haven't got, but I borrowed them and also come highly recommended.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-...=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196677124&sr=1-5

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196677175&sr=1-2

A word of caution though. All of the educational books refer to 16th edition and of course this will be changing in the New year to 17th edition. However, with regards to the books not much will change. You may get some bargains as they upgrade books to reflect 17th edition.

Oh and I nearly forgot, you would do yourselve well to get the electrician's guide to regs. Particularly with regards to your upcoming kitchen project.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrician...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196677350&sr=1-1

I have used Amazon links for convienence, but they are no way the cheapest. Use Kellkoo etc for that or try to get 2nd hand on EBAY.

Don't forget libraries as well for books.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the kitchen.

 

[Dippy]

jpdw

My situation is different from yours but it may help. I am currently having an extension built and lots of internal alterations. I decided to do the electrical work myself partly to save cost but mainly because there's a lot to do and if I do it myself then it'll be how I want it. Also I used to do the electrical work on my previous homes, and I have a background in electronics. So I feel very comfortable doing the work.

When I bought my new house last year, I realised that now I needed to consider the requirements of part P. The first thing I did was to buy "Electrician's guide to the building regulations" published by the IET. Great book and it immediately made me realise how much I DIDN'T know. I also got a copy of BS7671 (aka the 16th Edition wiring regs) off e-bay, but it has only been of marginal use.

Once I'd read the above guide I had to sit down and think hard about whether or not I wanted to go ahead myself. I decided that I would, and am still in the process of doing so, but on many occasions I have wondered if I am doing the right thing!

So I think I'm in agreement with rjb. Since you have actually done some basic electrical work, you don't really need to do a course on the basics. To do a further course would probably mean a vocational one, which you don't really want. So learning from books is probably the way to go.

Another point is about the regulations. As I guess you know, you will have to pre-notify the LABC. If you tell them you are a DIY'er, then they should arrange for the certification of what you do. However they do NOT need to provide you with an electrical installation certificate, just a BC completion certificate.

If, like me, you want to do the work yourself AND complete your own cert, then you'll need to think about this. I cannot provide an answer to the question of "what makes a person qualified to complete their own certs" because I have never seen it spelled out. However I think that MOST people expect it to mean that the person has some sort of qualification in an electrical or related discipline.

And the other think is that IMO you'd need a proper electrical installation tester - a multimeter is NOT up to the job!

 

[jpdw]

My situation is different from yours but it may help. I am currently having an extension built and lots of internal alterations. I decided to do the electrical work myself partly to save cost but mainly because there's a lot to do and if I do it myself then it'll be how I want it. Also I used to do the electrical work on my previous homes, and I have a background in electronics. So I feel very comfortable doing the work.

Perhaps not so different....
As far as the background theory goes, I have an electronics degree completed in the '90s but it's the domestic electrical application & practices (for want of a better way to put it) that I don't know --- ie the background is a grounding but I dont for 1 second think that it means I know how to wire a house to regs (before anyone jumps in). I've also felt comfortable doing the bits that I've done so far - hence considering doing more.

...buy "Electrician's guide to the building regulations" published by the IET...
... a copy of BS7671 (aka the 16th Edition wiring regs) off e-bay...

Thanks (also to rjb) for the links... I think I've now pre-allocated any book vouchers I get for Christmas!!

Once I'd read the above guide I had to sit down and think hard about whether or not I wanted to go ahead myself.

I guess at this stage though, even if I decide "no" then at least I'm now a bit more of a clued-up customer ... for a relatively small outlay.

If, like me, you want to do the work yourself AND complete your own cert, then you'll need to think about this. I cannot provide an answer to the question of "what makes a person qualified to complete their own certs" because I have never seen it spelled out. However I think that MOST people expect it to mean that the person has some sort of qualification in an electrical or related discipline.

Do post if / when you find an answer to that... if nothing else i'm intreagued!

And the other think is that IMO you'd need a proper electrical installation tester - a multimeter is NOT up to the job!

My mm is quite good (had it since univ) but doesn't have ohm resultion below 0.1 ohm, so that makes it not up to the job at least for final testing (needs to be <0.01 I think I read somewhere). But a mate used to do some non-domestic install work a couple of years ago before changing direction so there may be scope to borrow some of his kit, for a suitable "fee".

 

[chapeau]

Decent test kit with a long running calibration certificate has a very good resale value on EBay. Buy one new, and just add a hundred quid or so to the final budget for depreciation. Still a lot cheaper than getting an electrician in and you have the ability to test your work properly.

 

[Dippy]

OK so we are in the same situation. I too have an electronics degree from the early 90's. I also got an HNC in electronics before that. Both covered a fair bit of electrical engineering as well as electronics. I also worked in various engineering jobs in various industries. I have also maintained my chartered electrical engineer status (not sure why, especially as I also have to pay for annual IET membership just to do so ).

So when I decided to do my own house electrics, I argued to myself that I have the competence, but I was just missing the industry-specific knowledge and experience. The former I got from books and online, and the latter I'll just get by trial and error on my own house. This is OK as it is my house, but really my experience in industry is fine, expecially from a safety point of view (one of my jobs was designing safety systems for oil rigs so I do know a bit about safety ).

I have taken the same approach in tackling the qualification issue and in dealing with the LABC. Coming from a design background, I decided to write a "record of electrical works" for my house. It is now actually quite a big document. It contains all my work on the periodic inspection, with detailed descriptions and wiring diagrams. I have then done two alteration projects (loft lights and extension of ring and lighting in my garage) which have been detailed (planning, design, installation, testing etc).

Some might think this document is overkill, but I did it for me really, to prove to myself that I was doing the work properly. However I also used this document as the vehicle of notifying the LABC of notifiable work and to demonstrate my competence. My LABC has not accepted that I am a competent unregsitered person doing the work. I don't know for sure yet, but I believe that they will be OK with my own certification.

Its not just precision of continuity testing that matters, you also need to measure earth loop impedance and insulation resistance, and maybe also RCD trip time if you need to. That's why I say a MM is not up to the job. Also presumably your MM has not got a calibration cert? If so how can you know the readings are accurate anyway? If you can borrow a tester then that's fine. I bought an out-of-calibration Robin KTS1610 (basic but adequate) from E-bay for around £120 and got it calibrated for another £30.

Anyway, this reinforces my opinion that you do NOT need to go on a course - just read some books like I did.

 

[Cremeegg]

A number of colleges/centres do two day introductory courses for those taking a 5 day "Part P" course who dont know too much about electrics. Can't speak from experience but it may be worth a Google.