Do builders ever work for free?

[indus]

Ok, I'm sure this is going to wind a lot of people on here up but I'll go for it anyway

Basically my builder is coming to the end of my loft conversion, he himself doesn't really do any hands on stuff himself but has a team.

I have planning permission applied for a further quite a large job (circa £75k), I've told him that as long as he is competitive with the quote he will have first refusal on the job.

Anyway a few months ago I told him I was toying with the idea of an outbuilding in the garden and he quoted me for this. I then told him that actually I'd let that project wait as I would need money for when the pp comes through for the larger project and no more was said about it.

Then a few days ago he tells me that two of his jobs that were meant to start soon have both cancelled, he now has no immediate job to move on to. My big job won't be ready to start for at least 8 weeks even if/after pp is granted.

So he asks me whether I might want to think about the outbuilding again and he could reduce the price a bit. To be honest I'm in two minds about the outbuilding for lots of reasons but if I were to get it done at a once in a lifetime price it might be worth it.

So my question is, would a builder like him consider taking little/no profit on a job just so he could pay his teams wages? (and cover material costs of course)

I'm not trying to take advantage of the guy, he has done a good job on my loft. I'm also not desperate to get the outbuilding made, but if I get it done at a once in a lifetime price and he manages to pay his regular team for the next month or so until his next job starts then its not so bad.

So, is this something builders do sometimes?

Thanks

 

[big-all]

little or no profit is around 15-25%reduction

 

[noseall]

I have done pro-bono work for struggling primary schools and some charity organizations. However if i made a habit of it i would go bust.

Also being paid for something obliges you to include things like quality, workmanship, professionalism, efficiency, responsibility, liability......etc.

Your choice.....

 

[Alastairreid]

I can guarantee you he will not be working for nothing.

 

[peaps]

He may be happy with keeping his lads in work, good workers are hard to come by...

Sounds like he is a good bloke.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

He may be happy with keeping his lads in work, good workers are hard to come by...

Sounds like he is a good bloke.

Ditto....thats my thinking.... I have a good rappor with the guy who done all my jobs and when doing jobs for me also throws in the little jobs as well.. hes a great guy and does not ask anything for it but I always make sure he comes out ok, he admits he hates sitting down reading /watching tv as he has itchy hands and needs to keep them going all the time,as I said he is a great guy and does a great job at a fair price so he gets recommended by everybody and is busy all year round

 

[indus]

I can guarantee you he will not be working for nothing.

Ok, so if he has no other work for the next 4-8 weeks what will he do with his team? Even though I don't know the details of his relationship with them there are still only limited options ie

1) He pays them out of his own pocket to retain them

2) He explains there is no work and they then search for work with other builders.

Either way isn't it better for him to take a straight forward job that he doesn't really make anything out of but pays his team until the next job comes? (which may well be mine again)

 

[indus]

He may be happy with keeping his lads in work, good workers are hard to come by...

Sounds like he is a good bloke.

Yes, my experience of him so far is that he is a nice bloke, so are his team. That's why he will be first in line for my big extension, I've also been trying to promote him to all my friends.

With this outbuilding though I'm in two minds whether I even need it. However as I said if I get it made at 'cost price' and the team stay in employment over xmas then perhaps its not a bad idea.

 

[amuiphoto]

I'm not a builder but I'm self employed... and I can only say from my own point of view that it's better to be working than not - even if it's below what you'd normally expect to charge. Bills to pay and all that.

 

[Norcon]

We have a competitor who prices jobs occasionlly for less than the construction materials cost. Just blows everyone away and does a top quality job.
He'll do it when he's moving into a new area and gets the tongues wagging. He never advertises.

Another competitor has been put off a job half way through for sub standard work and were pulling in to fulfill the completion.
Swings and roundabouts eh..

 

[big-all]

on this one it all depends on where your morals principals and aims are
if you are being fair and honest with the balance then good on you
if you are deciding if he cuts his costs i can spend the money saved on a holiday
then that's taking advantage and underhand

 

[skotl]

I'm with the optimists on this one. Our son's godfather's father-in-law (got that?) employs a very small team, probably no more than 2 or 3 at a time.

He has to pay them whether there is money coming in or not and, for all the reasons previously stated, he would rather pay them from a decent job than either have them go penniless, have them look for another employer or he pays them when there is no work.


So the answer to your question is "yes, occasionally, this does happen". And it is a benefit to both you and the builder when it does.

But you can't hold him to ransom on this. You may get the labour for a cheaper rate on this job but the quid-pro-quo is that you should (ethically) pay him the going rate for the next job.

 

[indus]

I'm with the optimists on this one. Our son's godfather's father-in-law (got that?) employs a very small team, probably no more than 2 or 3 at a time.

He has to pay them whether there is money coming in or not and, for all the reasons previously stated, he would rather pay them from a decent job than either have them go penniless, have them look for another employer or he pays them when there is no work.


So the answer to your question is "yes, occasionally, this does happen". And it is a benefit to both you and the builder when it does.

But you can't hold him to ransom on this. You may get the labour for a cheaper rate on this job but the quid-pro-quo is that you should (ethically) pay him the going rate for the next job.

Absolutely agreed. He was paid the going rate for the loft he has almost finished, I didn't even try and haggle his price by a penny. He will definitely be paid the going rate for the next job, for lots of reasons ie

1) Given the size of the job nobody would take it otherwise. Its not a simple/low stress job like the proposed outbuilding

2) I don't want him losing interest in it half way through, I want him to be happy doing the project so its done well and flexibly. I think this has worked well for me in the loft, he had a decent (but not rip off) margin in it and so it has gone very smoothly and he has been very flexible to changes.


Thanks to everybody for their help, my question has been answered. Today I'll decide whether I actually want the outbuilding (I'm worried it might spoil the look of the garden) and then if I do, offer him what I think will just cover his costs. If he really has no other job over the next 4-8 weeks at least his boys will stay on full wages.

Btw, the outbuilding is

1) Approx 7.5m x 3.5m

2) Foundations (due to trees etc) is 6 concrete 'padstones' which will be 1m square and 6 steel beams that will be approx 3m long (G2:203X203X46Kg/m UC.)

3) Cavity wall made up of internal block and external facing bricks

4) Double pitched tiled roof (insulated)

5) Will have electricity supply ie lights etc

6) A couple of double glazed windows and a door.

7) Plasterboard and skimmed inside.

Access to the front of the property is easy, I have a big drive. Access to the garden is only 1m at the narrowest. I said he could knock a hole through the garage (it is due to be demolished later) if he wanted more access for diggers etc but he said he preferred to dig by hand!

My very rough estimate for materials/skips etc alone is about £10k

 

[skotl]

2) I don't want him losing interest in it half way through

That's a really good point. I don't work in construction, but the same rule applies. If the job is given away for less than cost then our interest in it becomes non-existent. You don't get the best guys and, if a better paying job comes along halfway through, then our attention switches to that.
Simple economics.

Sounds like you have a handle on it - good luck with the projects!

 

[Sledge]

Do builders ever work for free?

I believe you are mistaking them for software developers / programmers.

As you probably know, Tim Berners-Lee developed the World Wide Web and gave it to the world for zero. Linus Torvalds gave the world Linux for free.

Got a virus / operating system problem with your computer, or need a macro for Excel? Just log in to a software forum and some sap will happen along to throw freebies your way within a minute or two. Compare and contrast here where 2 out of 4 times the initial replier has been completely rude, making out I am some sort of numbskull. If only they'd identify themselves next time they go in search of computer support. I'd love to return the favour.

But as we all know, using your brain isn't real work, right? And that's why a mate of mine will be writing the database for a guy he met at a party, you guessed it, for free.

On the other hand, a brickie three doors down charged his own mother the full price for a new garden wall.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just saying is all.