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Do I need to make a planning application?

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by oculushut, 3 Sep 2018.

  1. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite

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    The purposes of the various restrictions are often not explained. I imagine there was a concern about extending off the main side walls of a dwelling, but to be fair it would probably be a bit tricky to come up with wording to cover just that, given the varying nature of dwelling designs and footprints. So we are stuck with the arbitrary restriction of no more than 1/2 the width when any side wall is involved. Which does have some somewhat harsh consequences in some cases.
     
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  2. oculushut

    oculushut

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    Hi there,

    I think this was covered earlier, but would be good to confirm a common understanding... so:

    a) I think that the guidance on p18 is not relevant as the 3m extension at the end is acutally attached to an outrigger which is part of the original house. See image below (the black part is the original house):

    [​IMG]
    b) The width of the entire house is around 5m. The width of the extension closest to the main building 2.5m.

    So given a) and b) I guess this is PD?

    EDIT 1: I think the following diagram from the p20 describes my scenario:

    [​IMG]
    EDIT 2: This image contains more measurements all in 1 place to clarify the proposal:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2018
  3. lt8480

    lt8480

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    You can still do a rear extension under PD it just can't fully "fill" the gap and is restricted in width.
     
  4. lt8480

    lt8480

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    That is correct if the existing outrigger is original or built pre 1948, otherwise the existing outrigger must be included in part of the PD assessment.

    The existong outrigger doesn't look original based on plan form so you need to determine when it was built.
     
  5. tony1851

    tony1851

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    To a point, but it depends on how wide the gap is between the side of the outrigger and the side wall of the extension.
    There seems to be no hard-and-fast rule on this, but several appeal cases on the PJ website suggest that the gap has to be "material", ie 150mm won't do, but 800-1000mm might be OK. The reasoning is that when the gap is very small, the outrigger and extension 'read' as one wide extension.
    This part of the p.d. rules really needs sorting out.
     
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  6. lt8480

    lt8480

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    Which bit of the PD rules are you referring to?

    If the outrigger is original then you can certainly butt up / connect to the outrigger, you just cant build more than 50% width of the whole house.

    The restriction and the gap work around to which I think you are referring to is when there is a non original two storey extension and someone wants to in-fill the rest as single storey (the problem being if they touch the whole thing is assed against PD rules as one extension which is why you need a gap so they are assessed as separate extensions). E.g. this often happens when someone has built a 2-storey 3m deep extension on a detached property and then want to build a 4m deep infill extension, if they touch the whole thing fails as a "2 storey 4m deep extension".
     
  7. LukeB123

    LukeB123

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    Little bit late to the party on this one, but my general view is basically that of Napoleons a few posts ago. If it projects from the side, no matter how much, then its a side extension. It will catch some out, but it either does or doesn't. If it does by a 100 MM you need to comply with the side rules too.

    lt8 - It isn't written anywhere in the PD rules regarding the "Gap" it's come from precedent and it would probably apply everywhere (single storey / 2 storey / side / rear etc.)

    I.E. If you have a side wrap around extension and want to put a rear extension immediately next to it, if the extension "reads" as one then even if it is separated by a few millimetres, it's likely to be judged as one big extension (especially so If it has clearly been built to function as one large extension). Tony's last post puts it across well.
     
  8. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite

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    The OP said the rear-most extension would be built off an existing 3m deep addition. Therefore for planning purposes the total depth of 6m must be considered so the extension need prior approval or planning permission.

    Looks like the infill extension might be ok as PD if 3m depth and no more than 1/2 width of the house. Subject to complying with all other restrictions e.g. matching materials, eaves height, overall height, etc.
     
  9. oculushut

    oculushut

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    hi - just wanted to clarify that the outrigger is original and the rear-most 3m extension is therefore attached to a part of the original building - we are rebuilding the existing 3m is extension. This is not an issue for PD (it is not 6m long). Perhaps my original drawing was not clear.
    With regards to heights, the eaves of the rear-most extension eaves are below 3m (near the centre of the plot). The tallest part of the rear-most extension is below 4m and at the boundary of the plot. The materials will match the existing. Given all of this... I believe this is all within PD.
     
    Last edited: 11 Sep 2018
  10. tony1851

    tony1851

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    Correct.
     
  11. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite

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    So are you 'rebuilding an extension', then extending out another 3 metres?

    To keep it simple, the relevant measurement is the one from the original rear wall of the dwelling, to the rear-most extent of what you want to build. If that is more than 3 metres, then it's not PD.
     
  12. tony1851

    tony1851

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    I think he keeps saying that the outrigger is original?, so 3m out from the rear wall of the outrigger would be OK.
     
  13. oculushut

    oculushut

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    Right - so we are knocking down the current extension which is 3m long and attached to the original outrigger and then rebuilding this. The new extension will also be 3m long and attached to the original outrigger.

    The difference between the old and the new is that the new 3m extension will not have a flat roof. It will have a pitched roof as shown in the diagram. Additionally, the window will be bigger.
     
  14. napoleondynamite

    napoleondynamite

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    Its not about the difference between the old and the new, its about the distance from the original rear wall of the dwelling, to the rear most point of the proposed extension, which is sounds like is 6 metres. So planning permission or prior approval is required.
     
  15. oculushut

    oculushut

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    OK - to be very clear: the distance from the original rear wall of the dwelling (the rear wall of the outrigger), to the rear most point of the rear-most proposed extension is 3m.
     
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