Do we have the right to be 'ist'?

[diy_fun_uk]

We live in a free, democratic country that values (well, 'did' value) the notion of free speech and freedom of thought.

I assert that, as long as an individual does not incite hatred or abusive violent acts towards others (physical or mental), that individual has the right to be 'ist', whether that be racist, sexist, any kind of ist with negative connotations.

Example, I am mixed race, half white Scottish, half brown Indian. Now, that alone might be enough cause for some people not to like me, maybe even people on this forum (law of averages and all that.) I would argue that is their right, whether or not it sits easily with me.

Now, whilst there's a massive side debate to be had about the positive strategy in trying to create a society where everyone (genuinely) likes everyone regardless of race, colour, gender etc with a belief in true equality for all, I assert it is an individual's right not to partake in such a strategy should they so wish. Further, they should not be shut down simply because their beliefs do not align with the so-called woke agenda.

I further assert if we strive too much for a vanilla society where everyone feels 100% safe 100% of the time, 100% confident they will never be offended because nothing offensive can be said, this is far from healthy if a country is to retain its core values of free speech, freedom of thought and the right to be ist, no matter how uncomfortable this can sometimes be.

Would be interested in your thoughts/views.

 

[Mottie]

Well, I’ve just had the best part of a bottle of wine with my dinner and I’m a little bit p ist!

All joking aside, if I didn’t like you, it would be because of you and not because of your heritage if that makes any sense.

 

[fillyboy]

Example, I am mixed race, half white Scottish, half brown Indian. Now, that alone might be enough cause for some people not to like me,

I like you.

 

[charliegolf]

I'm with you in general. I DID like you till the half Jock reveal. Blocked! I think the positive from 'wokeishness' is keeping the lid on people who say things like, "NowI'm no racist but..." and go on to show they are. And sadly, there are plenty to go around.

 

[StephenStephen]

Thanks for your post. What concerns me is when we see racism as being primarily about offence, or about individual behaviour, which leads to arguments about free speech obscuring the current massive structural inequalities.
Or to put it more plainly, I'm less concerned about people of colour being offended, and more concerned that people of colour are more likely to die younger, earn less, get poor healthcare, be discriminated against in getting employment, die in police custody, have poorer educational opportunities, die of covid, get poorer maternity care, etc
All of these inequalities happen less when we engage with and challenge racist views and attitudes, so it's worth challenging!

 

[Bod ...]

Thanks for your post. What concerns me is when we see racism as being primarily about offence, or about individual behaviour, which leads to arguments about free speech obscuring the current massive structural inequalities.
Or to put it more plainly, I'm less concerned about people of colour being offended, and more concerned that people of colour are more likely to die younger, earn less, get poor healthcare, be discriminated against in getting employment, die in police custody, have poorer educational opportunities, die of covid, get poorer maternity care, etc
All of these inequalities happen less when we engage with and challenge racist views and attitudes, so it's worth challenging!

I suppose we are lucky as that this doesn't happen so much here in the UK as in other countries, we have equality..

 

[Pat ex]

I suppose we are lucky as that this doesn't happen so much here in the UK as in other countries, we have equality..

Our team is better than your team.
My dad is bigger than your dad.

 

[Pat ex]

We live in a free, democratic country that values (well, 'did' value) the notion of free speech and freedom of thought.

I assert that, as long as an individual does not incite hatred or abusive violent acts towards others (physical or mental), that individual has the right to be 'ist', whether that be racist, sexist, any kind of ist with negative connotations.

Example, I am mixed race, half white Scottish, half brown Indian. Now, that alone might be enough cause for some people not to like me, maybe even people on this forum (law of averages and all that.) I would argue that is their right, whether or not it sits easily with me.

Now, whilst there's a massive side debate to be had about the positive strategy in trying to create a society where everyone (genuinely) likes everyone regardless of race, colour, gender etc with a belief in true equality for all, I assert it is an individual's right not to partake in such a strategy should they so wish. Further, they should not be shut down simply because their beliefs do not align with the so-called woke agenda.

I further assert if we strive too much for a vanilla society where everyone feels 100% safe 100% of the time, 100% confident they will never be offended because nothing offensive can be said, this is far from healthy if a country is to retain its core values of free speech, freedom of thought and the right to be ist, no matter how uncomfortable this can sometimes be.

Would be interested in your thoughts/views.

I think you're confusing the right to have an opinion compared to the requirement to bey the laws of the country.
Of course anyone can be whatever they wish to be, believe in whatever they wish to believe in. But they don't have the right to allow those beliefs to interfere with the right of others to live free of crime.
So while anyone can have racist, sexist, misogynist beliefs, etc, they don't have the right to ferment hatred or violence aimed at those groups or individuals that someone believes is inferior.

 

[Dork Lard]

I don't know what the word "racist" means anymore.

 

[StephenStephen]

I suppose we are lucky as that this doesn't happen so much here in the UK as in other countries, we have equality..

How I wish that were true - it's certainly a lovely and tempting fantasy.

 

[StephenStephen]

I don't know what the word "racist" means anymore.

Yes it's confusing - here's a decent attempt at a helpful definition: https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/becoming-anti-racist-city/racism-definition

 

[Bod ...]

Our team is better than your team.
My dad is bigger than your dad.

Well I don't know. If that's the way you have read it and from my conversations with foreign born residents or citizen who have lived in other country's countries and experienced racism. I suppose your right.

It's nice to hear someone say they love this country and definitely someone who's been an immigrant in another country.

Let's not forget there are people in this country who are full of hate. We will never eradicate this.

 

[Bod ...]

I think you're confusing the right to have an opinion compared to the requirement to bey the laws of the country.
Of course anyone can be whatever they wish to be, believe in whatever they wish to believe in. But they don't have the right to allow those beliefs to interfere with the right of others to live free of crime.
So while anyone can have racist, sexist, misogynist beliefs, etc, they don't have the right to ferment hatred or violence aimed at those groups or individuals that someone believes is inferior.

I don't believe Funk is saying that. Even hard line right wing racist can't believe that to be acceptable

 

[Bod ...]

I don't know what the word "racist" means anymore.

I think it's been lost or at best stretched.

 

[Bod ...]

Yes it's confusing - here's a decent attempt at a helpful definition: https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/becoming-anti-racist-city/racism-definition

Stephen I take that your a Black man; and you can rightly say how would I know because I'm not black.

But I see what I see. I have black neighbours friends and customers who have money nice house and nice cars. Life's still difficult, but it is for all of us. I live in a town that's mentioned in in lists of deprived areas.

I've worked for London councils
I've seen poverty. And it's across the colour scheme chart for all reasons. Main reason there are too many greedy people taking too much out of our system. A very British problem that's not unique to this country.