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Dodgy Plastic Pipe

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by leakydave, 7 Jan 2013.

  1. leakydave

    leakydave

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    I was called to an emergency water through ceiling job today in a 5 year old bungalow. The central heating flow pipe had burst in the loft. Apparently there was burst on this same pipe about 600mm from this burst a couple of months ago, but I didn't cut out the split that time.
    Have any of you come across this type of plastic pipe?


    The Writing on the Pipe is as follows:

    To BS 7291/2 2001 CLASS 8 22mm Barrier Pipe PB-H&C Services & Heating- 12 BAR/20C - 7 BAR / 82C LOT NO 20051127 04:15:17

    So the pipe is seven years old, but who makes it? Are the manufacturer liable for costs of water damage caused?

    Dave
     
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  3. leakydave

    leakydave

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    Anyone???
     
  4. SandyLyon

    SandyLyon

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    Dave

    Different manufacturers have different warranties, both in length of time and to what extent their liability is.

    I would expect even the worst case would be a 10 year warranty rising to 50 years on Hep2o, each manufacturer will insist that it has been installed in accordance with their instructions and has not been subject to any abuse etc. etc.

    All of which is useless if you can’t identify who made your pipe, the manufacturers name should be on the pipe and repeated approx. every metre, I have looked at the markings and don’t recognise the wording or code. I use Hep2o and their manufacture code is nothing like the one shown (it looks like a simple Y M D Time stamp).
    Could you identify what make of fittings were used on the system (not conclusive as some firms just import pipe)

    A few questions.

    The PB on the writing probably means that its Polybutelyne , is it flexible like PB or more rigid like PEX

    Is the inner layer white or grey

    Does the “split” look to be clean or does it look to be “crazed” around the split

    What make of boiler is it and how far away from the boiler have the bursts happened

    Sorry to ask but I have seen a number of “Bursts” / “Splits” on plastic and there is sometimes a common theme.

    Sandy
     
  5. leakydave

    leakydave

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    Grant external combi with PRV lift at 2.5 bar. This pipe started pprox 2m from boiler. Between this pipe and the boiler was copper pipe.

    I didn't recognise the fittings, but picture below. They had a metal grab ring like the original hep2o fittings. Not demountable. My worry, and indeed the landlord's, is that this happens again on some of the other pipe in they system.


     
  6. mattysupra

    mattysupra

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    not a plumber so i dont know, but when you chaps get failed pipes / boilers etc, well do you have some sort of independent inspector for inspecting and writing reports?

    in the flooring trade we have people like - http://www.sid-bourne.com/

    He will visit site and inspect and write a report with who is to blame, why they are to blame and what the fix is.

    I ask i never see electricians or plumbers recommending the services of people like the above. Do they exist in your trade?
     
  7. leakydave

    leakydave

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    We just have to fall back on manufacturers warranty, unless work is covered by Gas Safe or OFTEC, who can come and inspect work.
     
  8. newbuildinstaller

    newbuildinstaller

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    most plastic pipe manus say NOT to use their pipe with oil systems so Im thinking you arent going to have much luck!!
     
  9. leakydave

    leakydave

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    The pipes only carry hot water... not oil. I have NEVER seen any reference to not using plastic pipe with an oil boiler.

    Loads of systems I see have plastic pipe and the only stipulation I know is that at least 1m of pipe has to be copper from the boiler before plastic.
     
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  11. SandyLyon

    SandyLyon

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    Dave

    I can't be sure, but it looks like a fiiting called Qual-PEX made by an Irish Company called Quality Plastics Ltd, if it is them, good luck with the warranty.

    The reason that I asked about the boiler and distance is, in some cases, low water content heat exchangers can get air in them, and this can turn the little bit of water into steam, this expands very quickly and will take the path of least resistance. This could be the Flow or Return .

    When it can't expand anymore, this is where the burst happens.
    This is one of the reasons why copper is used for the first metre or so.
    There was a know problem with Potterton Suprima boilers until they fitted extra controls.

    Also some oil boiler manufacturers don't recommend plastic pipework at all.

    If excessive heat has been the cause, you often see "crazing" around the burst and indication that the plastic has softened.

    Has there been any air in the system or any overheating problems
     
  12. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    You should check the literature more closely then bud ;)



    *edit - Sand y's post overlapped mine.


    Anyway.... Qual-Pex was a tan coloured pipe. It might be my screen, but that looks a different colour.
     
  13. SandyLyon

    SandyLyon

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    Quite a number of Oil Boiler manufacturers say not to use Plastic Plumbing with their boilers
     
  14. mattysupra

    mattysupra

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    that seems crazy for a trade that is so strict with gas safe etc. Surely you chaps should have a option of using a professional who can inspect rather taking manufactures words for what happened etc. They could come up with any excuses and you have no one that can prove that you may not be at fault.

    for example the manufacturer may say that the plastic pipe was to close to boiler and its your fault. Yes it may be closer than recommended but the failed pipe may of failed for another reason. It may have nothing to do with the pipe being to close to boiler.

    And how many of you have had a warranty claim where the manufacturer has not paid out on due to them having stupid clause or something silly like to close to boiler when you know the fault is not related to that in anyway?
     
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  15. RickMoore

    RickMoore

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    I think I recognise the fittings, I believe they were made by polyplumb for BnPoo, not seen them on sale for a few years now, and that may not help with the manufacturer of the pipe.
    Good luck with warranty on poly plumb, a few years ago I had a 15-10mm reducer snap clean accross the body of the fitting 2 days after being pressured. They blamed incorrect installation, WTF?, but that was all I could get out of them, hardly explanatory.
    I point blank refuse to use their gear now, it's ****e anyway even without a dodgy guarantee.
     
  16. leakydave

    leakydave

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    I have checked literature from Grant and Worcester and both allow plastic pipe after the first metre.
     
  17. Charnwood

    Charnwood

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    Quality Plastics is known as Pipelife in the UK (Pondlife to those who have the misfortune to deal with them). The fitting looks like their Qual-PEX range. Qual-PEX pipe usually has Q-PEX stamped on it.

    Pipelife UK
    13 Saxon Way East,
    Oakley Hay Industrial Estate,
    Corby, Northants,
    NN18 9EY,
    Great Britain.
    Tel.: 08452419490
    Fax: 08452419491
     
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