Does a "real" presence sensor exist, or are all PIRs motion-based?

[ban-all-sheds]

How about one of these:

 

[ericmark]

How about one of these:

Too expensive since minimum wage to pay some one to operate it. Most my latter employment was used working out how to replace or reduce people required to operate a machine. At even £5 an hour it is surprising what can be spent to reduce staff from 5 to 4 people. £5000 is nothing to replace a man or woman. However in the home it is rather different I don't pay my wife the minimum wage so "switch the light on love" is still an option.

If you have ever seen how they can arrange a house where the occupant suffers from alzheimers to alert a monitoring station when things go wrong it seems we have a long way to go. I have so many times been phoned as mother is out of bed, and a quick check with camera and nothing wrong and not always the picture but being able to hear which the monitoring station can also do. They still rely on telephone for the telemetry link, today one would have expected a broad band link.

I know the stuff is out there, Arduino are quite cheap, but the skill required to program them it seems is harder to find. We have a three stage in automation. The PIC is very cheap but needs very high skill to program, the Arduino is more expensive but easier to program, the PLC is very expensive but a doodle to program.

 

[stillp]

Does such a thing as a real presence sensor exist? I.e. one that would remain on for however long a warm body is in the room, despite not moving? Or are they all motion-based?

Some years ago we wrote a CENELEC standard for PIRs for safety-related applications, that included requirements for those that can detect a person who does not move. Can't remember the operating principle, but they were expensive. That standard was soon withdrawn due to pressure from light curtain manufacturers, and limited applications.

 

[Echo the husky]

The absolute best interior lighting sensors that I have used are EX-OR microwave sensors. EX-OR seems to have been taken over by Honeywell and has sort of disappeared. These very similar (if not the same with a different brand name) are also excellent.

I just manually operate a switch on the wall when I want the lights on/off though.

 

[Iggifer]

£243!!!

MK is also Honeywell, so it probably is the same sensor as the EX-OR, just put under a stronger Honeywell brand

 

[Echo the husky]

£243!!!

I can beat that.

Another good reason to use a switch. It would be cheaper to just leave the light on all the time!

 

[Iggifer]

£243!!!

I can beat that.

Another good reason to use a switch. It would be cheaper to just leave the light on all the time!

Yea I did a quick google price check and saw that. It definitely would be cheaper!! ROI on that sensor would be ridiculous.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

EX-OR seems to have been taken over by Honeywell and has sort of disappeared.

Don't tell me - their stuff was better than any of Honeywell's sh¡te, so rather than raise their game to compete they just bought them and shut them down.

 

[Echo the husky]

Pretty much, look at how awful MK products have become since they were taken over.

 

[Iggifer]

Pretty much, look at how awful MK products have become since they were taken over.

Some of it's still good. Some of it is utter garbage.

 

[Stu_L]

Pretty much, look at how awful MK products have become since they were taken over.

Some of it's still good. Some of it is utter garbage.

Hi, long time reader / new poster here. I would genuinely be interested in your (or anyone else's) feedback on what products you consider 'garbage' now seeing as I'm a Design Engineer that works at Honeywell / MK / Ex-or.
Customer feedback is always good information to have when we're looking at product improvements / new product development. Cheers.

 

[Iggifer]

Gladly.

My main gripe is with the Grid Plus range, but to a certain extent, extends to Logic Plus plate switches.

The terminal screws on the Gridswitches are SO soft, if you don't get your termination right first time, you could be in trouble.

I've had a couple of grid plus switches recently where one of the terminal screws or terminal threads was either cross threaded or just damaged on opening the packet.

I have literally no complaints about design of MK products, they're one of my favourite visually and to fit, but it's manufacturing quality that's lacking.

I would need to check my van stock to be certain, but it seems to be products made in the UK are fine, and those made in Malaysia are poor.

Also not a fan of MK circuit protection - haven't used anything AMD3, but the quality of plastic boards and even breakers is just nowhere close to being as good as Hager, for very little price difference

 

[Stu_L]

I hear what you say about the screws. They are made of brass which isn't the strongest material for screw heads of that size! We tried steel to improve the strength of the screw head but then then the threads of the brass terminals stripped under excess torque instead. Couldn't win unfortunately.
Interesting that you mention the country of origin too. In theory the product should be identical in specification so there should be no difference.
CP has always been a tricky one - MK are not a 'massive' player in the market although the new metal enclosures appear to be being received well so far.

 

[Iggifer]

I suspect it's to do with differing ratios of copper/zinc in the brass that cause the issue. Some are so soft it's like chocolate, others are fine. Deeper recesses for the driver would help. Then when it strips.....there's still enough to use again!

Like I say, I will check the switches on my van, and see if my general impressions are factually correct