Does my kitchen need to be on a seperate ring?

[markaboot]

I've done a quick search but didn't find anything, can someone help or link me to the correct info please.

I bought a house, stripped out all the crap and am currently in the process of rewiring.

I got told by a friend at work that my kitchen had to be on its own ring, is this true?

I have a copy of Wiring Regulations In Brief, a complete guide to the requirements of the 17th Edition. ( brief meaning 662 pages long )
There is no mention of a kitchen ring with a ground floor ring. There is also a diagram showing the usual ground floor ring, 1st floor ring.

The house has 2 rooms downstairs, the lounge and what is now the kitchen diner. It seems fairly pointless putting a ring in each room. Unless regs say i have too.

Any help much appreciated.

Mark

 

[riveralt]

I've done a quick search but didn't find anything, can someone help or link me to the correct info please.

I bought a house, stripped out all the crap and am currently in the process of rewiring.

I got told by a friend at work that my kitchen had to be on its own ring, is this true?

I have a copy of Wiring Regulations In Brief, a complete guide to the requirements of the 17th Edition. ( brief meaning 662 pages long )
There is no mention of a kitchen ring with a ground floor ring. There is also a diagram showing the usual ground floor ring, 1st floor ring.

The house has 2 rooms downstairs, the lounge and what is now the kitchen diner. It seems fairly pointless putting a ring in each room. Unless regs say i have too.

Any help much appreciated.

Mark

Before you do anymore you should find your answer in the section on Approved Documents Part P. Speak to the people mentioned there and they should be able to help you.
Your friend is neither right or wrong.

 

[OwainDIYer]

There is no rule that says you have to use a separate ring.

You do have to consider the suitability of the circuits you wish to install and you may decide that the prevalence of high current appliances in the kitchen justifies additional circuit(s), whether ring or radial.

 

[RF Lighting]

Personally I keep the general usage sockets in the kitchen on the ground floor ring, and then run in a seperate radial circuit for the kitchen appliances.

 

[markaboot]

ahh so basicly if its going to be a large ground floor ring, supplying several rooms then its better to have the higher current appliances on their own circuit, to prevent the trip getting close to its limit. where as smaller rings with less on them dont have such a load and therefore a seperate ring is not as necessary.

i shall tot up some totals and see what my maximum current is likely to be.

 

[riveralt]

ahh so basicly if its going to be a large ground floor ring, supplying several rooms then its better to have the higher current appliances on their own circuit, to prevent the trip getting close to its limit. where as smaller rings with less on them dont have such a load and therefore a seperate ring is not as necessary.

That is gobbledegook - I assume that you are identifying the difference between large and small ring final circuits (RFC) by their cable length and therefore the issue of voltage drop comes into it - or are you measuring the difference between the cable size and MCB? Or is the expected load?

I still believe you need to speak to your LABC inspector to run your ideas past him/her - or are you doing this illegally?

 

[dingbat]

I still believe you need to speak to your LABC inspector to run your ideas past him/her...

They will have no input and are neither obliged nor inclined to get involved in the design process.

... or are you doing this illegally?

This is a different issue altogether -that of compliance with Building Regulations.

 

[dingbat]

I bought a house, stripped out all the crap and am currently in the process of rewiring.

You're not going to be happy with me saying this, but I am not convinced you fully understand what you are doing.

I got told by a friend at work that my kitchen had to be on its own ring, is this true?

No. There is no such requirement.

Didn't your book tell you to consult Section 132 of the regulations?

 

[OwainDIYer]

ahh so basicly if its going to be a large ground floor ring, supplying several rooms then its better to have the higher current appliances on their own circuit, to prevent the trip getting close to its limit. where as smaller rings with less on them dont have such a load and therefore a seperate ring is not as necessary.

No, it depends what kitchen appliances there are (and how likely they are to be used simultaneously and for what duration).

Max ring load = 7 kW.

Washing machine heating water = 3kW
Tumble dryer = 3kW

Not a lot spare for other purposes.

If it's a big kitchen with lots of appliances you will need extra circuit(s).

The rest of the house is unlikely to have any very significant loads, apart from the immersion heater which shoould be on its own circuit.

 

[riveralt]

I still believe you need to speak to your LABC inspector to run your ideas past him/her...

They will have no input and are neither obliged nor inclined to get involved in the design process.

I never mentioned that the LABC got involved in the design process.
They do however require that all electrical work meets the requirements of Part P (Electrical Safety) in so much as it must be designed, installed, inspected and tested by a person competent to do so.
Furthermore, prior to completion. the LABC should be satisfied that Part P has been complied with.
This may require an appropriate BS7671 electrical installation certificate to be issued for the work by a person competent to do so.
Its quite clear from the OP's statements so far that he isn't competent and he hasn't approached the LABC - so he is acting illegally.

 

[dingbat]

I still believe you need to speak to your LABC inspector to run your ideas past him/her...

They will have no input and are neither obliged nor inclined to get involved in the design process.

I never mentioned that the LABC got involved in the design process.

Yes you did. You said

I still believe you need to speak to your LABC inspector to run your ideas past him/her...

Or did you somehow mean that, after the event, the OP would casually check whether what had already been done was the right thing? You definitely implied that LABC would have to agree with the OP's plan, which is not the case, even under a building notice. He need only state his intention and then submit to their inspection regime. The first time they are likely to have any oversight of his work is, probably, after first fix, but maybe not until second fix.

Its quite clear from the OP's statements so far that he isn't competent and he hasn't approached the LABC - so he is acting illegally.

Is it? Hasn't he? I'm not sure that you can [quite] make that judgement from his posts, although it does seem likely.

But, I agree with you about his apparent competence to complete the work satisfactorily on his own.

 

[riveralt]

The first time they are likely to have any oversight of his work is, probably, after first fix, but maybe not until second fix.

Not around here they don't - as I have personal experience.
If there is a Part P requirement and the person completing the work is not a member of the competent persons scheme then they require the person who is completing the work to demonstrate their competence before the work starts.
In my case, before I registered with a competent persons scheme, it meant showing them my 2391 certificate and producing tables outlining how each circuit was designed.
They then came after first fix and on completion when they went through the EIC I had completed.
For that they charged me £100 plus vat instead of the £385 plus vat they normally charge.

 

[dingbat]

...Not around here they don't - as I have personal experience.
If there is a Part P requirement and the person completing the work is not a member of the competent persons scheme then they require the person who is completing the work to demonstrate their competence before the work starts...

That is far from usual and is not an actual requirement placed on the LABC. Taking a pro-active approach like that is rare indeed.

LABCs have the latitude to apply the rules as they see fit and the level of involvement you describe, while exemplary, is not what you will encounter in many cases.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Or did you somehow mean that, after the event, the OP would casually check whether what had already been done was the right thing? You definitely implied that LABC would have to agree with the OP's plan, which is not the case,

Yes it is.

You apply for Building Regulations approval, and describe, in words and with drawings, how you will comply with the relevant requirements of the Building Regulations.

LABC look at your submission, and decide if what you propose to do will indeed comply with the regulations, and if they agree they will approve your plans.

As work progresses they will check it at various stages to confirm that you are actually doing what you said you'd do.

even under a building notice.

Anybody who does notifiable work under the auspices of a Building Notice is mentally deficient.

 

[dingbat]

Check again.

http://www.rochford.gov.uk/planning/building_control/building_notice_submission.aspx

http://www.dartford.gov.uk/buildingcontrol/noticeroute.htm

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/ccm/conte...-a-building-regulations-application.en?page=3

http://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/living/building_control/making_an_application/building_notice.aspx