Double extension- where to start?

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Manchester
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Hey all - I need advise
I am going to build a double extension + poss loft conversation.
Where do you start?
Call a builder, anyone recommend a good one in Manchester?
Call an architect?

Also would I be best paying a builder to do it all?
Or...
Pay a builder a day rate for a month, joiner for a month, labourer for a month and then get seperate plumbers/plasterers/electricians?

Any input welcome!!! Thanks in advance
 
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Get design work done first and sort out any planning. Only use an architect if your house could be described as architectural and you have ideas of your extension being out of the ordinary. If it's a standard extension on a standard estate type house a local chartered surveyor will be perfectly adequate and a lot cheaper. Once planning is secured the next step are working drawings and building regulations. When you have detailed drawings you can then obtain prices. You could manage works yourself but I would only consider that if you have some experience and have the time.
 
Get a clerk of works who is completely independent of all the trades and make sure he understands he works for you with full responsibility for ensuring that all works are properly built. It'll cost you but in the end you'll agree it was money well spent, otherwise some less scrupulous trade will run rings round you.
 
Hi Ive just done a double extension, mainly myself, but had a few trades in

I did my own pp drawings and submitted these - these were passed about 3 days shy of the 8 week limit.

Then I got a friend of a friend (architectual technician) to do building regs drawings for me and also got a structural engineer involved for structural calcs as house is timber frame and I needed some pretty hefty flitch beams.

Then I got the building notice as opposed to full plans to speed things up.

I dug out the footings with a mini digger and installed rebars and then had concrete pumped in.

I then paid for a brickie to do from the footings up to dpc.

Then the oversite (floor build up) which I did so hardcore, sand, membrane steel mesh and slab (barrowed by same firm who supplied footings).

I then paid for 2 chippies to do all the structural changes i.e. superstructure - they cut out all the exisitng framing and created the new framing.

Then paid a brickie to brick up the outside. I then did the roof which was partially flat - EPDM roof and replacing the existing tiles around the edge and on the front.

I installed the windows and fixed larch cladding to the outside of the first floor.

Then to the inside I did 1st fx plumbing and electrics, new rads etc. Insulation, plasterboarding and then paid for plastering to be done.

Now I am decorating, doing 2nd fix electrics, flooring etc so nearly done.

I managed all the materials along the way. Even for the trades I had in - They just turned up and did the labour. I did a lot of searching on the internet to find what I needed and the best prices etc.

Ive been going for 13 months now and as I said we are nearly there. Its been hard work as I have been effectively been doing 2 jobs for that period as I have been doing the extension before work, after work and days off. On the flip side I really enjoy doing the work (I wont say DIY as I feel Im beyond that) and Im pretty good at it.

Its cost about 47k. For that Ive done a double storey extension on the back and a partial loft conversion - house is a dormer bungalow so the loft bit was changing the garage roof which was loft space from a hip to gable and extending into it. Weve gained a new room down and 1 and a half bedrooms up and a walk in wardrobe and ensuite. Labour for the trades I had in was about £8200 and the rest was materials

The trades I had in quoted for the job so fixed price rather than day rate.

Its been a real achievement but I have sacrificed my time to do it and have had to miss out on things I liked doing like running as I just have not had time. That said, I have saved a lot in Labour so.......swings and roundabouts I guess.

Its been like a little adventure for me and at times Ive forgotten what its like not to ache. Would I do it again? Probably yes, but not for a while.
 
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Thanks for the replys so far.
I have called a builder for a quote, he said he might know someone to do the drawings.

Does it take 8 weeks for planning permission?
Other houses on the street have the same side double extension.

So I don't need an architect I need a chartered surveyor?

I've never heard of a clerk of works, is this a project manager? Is that standard practice for this job to hire someone to do this?

Thx
 
Thanks for the thanks guys!

OP - 8 weeks is the guide by which LA's try to abide, more of an aspiration really. As part of the 8 weeks they have to consult with neighbours etc which takes 3 of those 8 anyway so at the speed the LA works you can see where the 8 weeks goes.

Dependent on what you want to do, it may not require pp but may be permitted development - google it - there is a good gov website which tells you what is and what is not PD.

My understanding is you still need to apply to the LA for PD and they will ask your neighbours what they think and if anyone doesnt like it, it triggers the requirement for pp (I may be wrong)

Dont worry too much about objections - The LA dont really take much notice. If there is a reason for your plans to be knocked back, the council will identify it, they wont be caught with their trousers down by a neighbour coming up with something they hadnt. We had an objection - well more of a rant really - but there was history there. The objectors didnt want the original house built (in 2004) and it went to committee and they lost. I think they viewed it as another opportunity to whinge about the original house being built. I took a load of pictures to disprove what they were saying and went on a charm offensive with the planning officer who wasnt having any of their nonsense after that!

PP costs £172. As stated I did my own initial drawings - Took me a total of 12 hours - Yes they have to be good, but not that good - Just a clear respresentation of what it looks like now and what it will look like from all sides and roof. If other houses have the same this is a good prescedent.

If you get the drawings done you could probably get a deal whereby they do pp drawings and once approved, add the building regs stuff to those drawings for say £500-1000.

Once you have pp, you can either go full plans submission or building notice. Both cost the same, for me about £800. Full plans is you submit your building regs drawings and the council spend another 8 weeks looking at them and then say they meet regs or not. If you get them professionally done, its unlikely they would say they dont meet regs as most of the regs stuff is generic and the architect will know his/her stuff and they do it everyday. They thing then is that provided the plans are followed exactly you are pretty much sorted through to completion i.e. no nasty surprises like this doesnt comply, that doesnt comply etc.

Building notice - you submit and 48 hours later you can start without any plans. In reality though my LA asked for my plans and on seeing them then asked for structural package - all of which were supplied - The thinking is that with a building notice you crack on without plans and the inspector inspects and signs of each item as you go along so if you do something not according to regs they will require you to change it. The reality is though if you get a builder to do it, they will know exactly what is required for each stage as its bread and butter stuff for them so you are unlikely to not follow regs unless the person doing is a complete numpty or perhaps someone from overseas unfamiliar with they building regs.

I researched each component of building regs as I went along, looked at the plans and cracked on. Its common sense really. My inspections have all gone really well - Just got 2nd fix elecs now and completion.

I would go fixed price for the job with trades and get it in writing. I would try and get trades via word of mouth. I was quite lucky with the ones I had, all good lads. The only slight disappointment was the first brickie who did from footings to dpc - not the best job - got him from one of these trust a trader websites so didnt try those again.

Re your drawings try an architectual technician - They do the same as an architect but cheaper. Some of the architects firms will offer submission services for a fee however you dont need this - pp is just a simple application form with all the drawings attached - do some research and save some money, youll need it!

Good luck
 
Hi Ive just done a double extension, mainly myself, but had a few trades in

Stevie,

a few questions out of interest:
What size was the extension in square metres?
How much did you save / do you think you have saved over getting a building company to manage the project for you?
Did you pay trade prices for materials or did you have to pay retail?
How easy was it to find trades to do the work for you?

The answers might be useful to the OP, but also it's something I am considering myself in the future and am interested in the cost savings.
 
Probably about half my clients handle the management themselves. Some reckon they made significant savings but a few have said they probably didn't save that much in the long run. The main drawback is time. Both in terms of actual personal input but also in terms of overall project time. Stevie is on 13 months for an extension and he's obviously happy with that. But 13 months of disruption isn't for everybody. Most builders I know would be off site in less than 3 months.
 
Hi

In answer to your questions:

Size is about 20 sqm down and about 40 sqm up.

My best quess is that to have had the extension done turn key would have been approx 80k.

With regards trade prices - I did open a trade account with Travis, but on looking around trying to source materials I found some merchants to be even cheaper than Travis trade prices so Im guessing whilst they didnt say 'These are trade prices' to me Im guessing they were.

Some trades proved a challenge. I had some people turn up and clearly wanted the whole job otherwise they were not interested. I had some trades turn up and seemed all keen and we had a bit of communication after the initial meet then nothing (?). I had some trades turn up who didnt inspire me because even I thought 'what the fu..!' in relation to some of the stuff they came out with and Im not a builder.

The most unreliable people I had in relation to turning up was scaffolders - Called 3, only2 turned up.

In the end, as stated, I got a brickie off a trust a trader type site to do inner and outer skin from footings to dpc - didnt do the best job and some of it had to be undone and redone as it wasnt straight. This was my one mistake.

I then found 2 chippies from yellow pages who did a fantastic job, they were top boys - They suggested a brickie who I went with who did a fantastic job and then the plasterers were a friend of a friend who also did a bang up job. All reasonably priced and trustworthy - Would not hesitate to pass their details on or use again.

I really enjoyed the project management of it and spending the money etc, taking deliveries.

As stated, doing what I have done is probably not for everyone - It has taken over my life for this period, I think you would probably really want to do it and be good enough at it to not f..k it up. Obviously I knew my limitations in that I just didnt have time to learn the carpentry required, how to lay bricks or plaster - I have done all these things on a small scale but not to this extent. I started almost 20 years ago doing a shelf etc and decorating a kitchen and have just developed it over the years with bigger and more complex projects, but nothing on this scale.
 
I'm in more of a rush so it's going to be done in less than a year. I was hoping within 3 month!!! But looks like I'll have to be a bit more patient.

I can do some of the work I've built rooms, done some wiring and plumbing but the main brick or block, floors roof etc is well out of my remit
 
A good option might be to have the shell built and you do the fitting out.
 
Jeds - what's typicall included if I get quotes in for the shell being built as you say and I'd do the fitting out?
Thanks
 
It may still be an option to project manage the works and sub contract all the work out to tradesmen. It might take you a bit longer than the three months that Jeds quoted, but a lot less than the year taken by Stevie who did most of the work himself.

You would have to be confident that you would be able to manage the works efficiently to get it done quickly. Planning would be paramount.
 

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