Most of my house lighting circuits are mid-sixties and just missed out on an earth conductor. Not a problem originally with basic plastic fittings but as decor and fashions have changed better looking fittings have become available, mostly involving metal. Up till now I have managed with more modern double insulated class 2 fittings. What have noticed is that most of these seem to be just an additional plastic enclosure encasing the terminal connections. Is there more to it than this and if not why can't existing fittings be converted? No doubt there is some regulation out there that won't let you!
Double insulated lights, DIY ?
- Thread starter fairplay
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The entire construction of the fitting must be so that any single failure of insulation does not result in exposed metal parts becoming live - including all internal wiring, any internal connections, lampholders, etc.
It is not a case of just shoving a plastic terminal box in the top.
The original manufacturer will be constructing the light fitting to various BS and BSEN numbers, and somewhere in there in one of the standard electrical item standards will be a requirement for class two that says pretty much what flameport has said, but it'll use five times the number of words and will require that it is read at least three times before its possible to translate into normal english.... once the manufacturer is happy that all relevant standards have been complied with (some of which might requries tests to be carried out, most won't), they place "CE" mark label on this to show its compliant. If you were to manufacturer something yourself, even if you were sure it met the definition of Class 2, it wouldn't be CE marked. Does this matter? In your own home, probably not, if you were selling them online, then yes it does.
[Of course, anyone can put a CE mark on whether or not the equipment complies or not, one must be careful on the internet buying stuff that originates from certain eastern countries, also note its the responsibility of the entity who imports said equipment into the EU to ensure that equipment is CE marked, and also that CE mark isn't fradulent.
Some of the light fittings available commercially sometimes appear quite dubious in whether they actually do meet the defination of class two, despite the manufacturer saying so, and even then sometimes the way they get installed with three plate wiring (thowing away the plastic connection enclosure) is not in accordance with 134.1.1 and ends up with it being more like class 0 then class 2.
My advice, re-wire the lighting circuit and buy proper class 1 fittings
[Of course, anyone can put a CE mark on whether or not the equipment complies or not, one must be careful on the internet buying stuff that originates from certain eastern countries, also note its the responsibility of the entity who imports said equipment into the EU to ensure that equipment is CE marked, and also that CE mark isn't fradulent.
Some of the light fittings available commercially sometimes appear quite dubious in whether they actually do meet the defination of class two, despite the manufacturer saying so, and even then sometimes the way they get installed with three plate wiring (thowing away the plastic connection enclosure) is not in accordance with 134.1.1 and ends up with it being more like class 0 then class 2.
My advice, re-wire the lighting circuit and buy proper class 1 fittings
And I always thought CE stood for Chinese Export
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That may be an over-simplification - if it is intended as a description/explanation of Class II items in general.
A high proportion, probably most, of the Class II items I have do not have any exposed metal parts. Furthermore, many/most do not have 'double insulation' (instead relying on a single layer of so-called 'reinforced insulation'). A single failure (of that 'reinforced insulation') could therefore result in live parts becoming exposed.
Kind Regards, John
Thank you. Pretty much as I guessed. I will continue to avoid metal light fittings. Luckily, although no earth on lighting circuit it is all PVC cable and not rubber. Always makes me smile on here how keen electricians are to completely rewire a house. Were it an empty property or being sold then maybe. But for the average person in a sixties house that has served them fautlessly for 50 years to have the expense of that including the disruption of having all the decor ruined and every wall re-plastered is actually quite traumatic!!
Also quite traumatic are electric shocks.
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This house built 1954 had no earth to lights, I had a problem as when the kitchen was rewired, they forgot the lights, and the electricians rightly refused to refit the fluorescent light as it was not class II, so I required a class II light, I found an internet site which specialised in class II and ordered a 28W 2D lamp, when it arrived it looked just like all the other 2D lamps found in the like of B&Q but with the double square sticker.
I can fully see your point, it seems a lot of extra money for what seems to be the same, however I note the ballast was fully plastic covered and it was likely the ballast type is what made it class II.
Switches were also a problem, the original switches had wooden back boxes, Bakelite covers, and there was no way any screw could become live, however the replacement switches used metal back boxes so required switches which had bungs in the socket for screws so you could not see or touch the fixing screws.
This really limited what could be used, and also the amount of rubber insulated cable resulted in too much leakage to use RCD protection, and when my mother with alzheimer's disease put a 4 outlet socket extension is a bucket of water as she thought it was on fire after seeing the red neon, so I decided to get house re-wired. I had the ability to DIY, but not the time.
The electricians doing the were able to do much of the work without ripping out plaster, he reused the existing conduit, however it cost a little more and resulted in some walls not having sockets.
With lights only it would be possible to use all wireless switches so only cabled under the floor boards not down the walls, however to do this you pay more for switches, so it is up to you to decide what to do, there are options, you could use a TV type remote control if you wished, although I prefer fixed switches. So you would need only two chases, one consumer unit to under floor boards and other to loft space.
It is up to you how it is done. However it does mean there is no need to flout regulations it just needs some thoughts on how to comply.
I can fully see your point, it seems a lot of extra money for what seems to be the same, however I note the ballast was fully plastic covered and it was likely the ballast type is what made it class II.
Switches were also a problem, the original switches had wooden back boxes, Bakelite covers, and there was no way any screw could become live, however the replacement switches used metal back boxes so required switches which had bungs in the socket for screws so you could not see or touch the fixing screws.
This really limited what could be used, and also the amount of rubber insulated cable resulted in too much leakage to use RCD protection, and when my mother with alzheimer's disease put a 4 outlet socket extension is a bucket of water as she thought it was on fire after seeing the red neon, so I decided to get house re-wired. I had the ability to DIY, but not the time.
The electricians doing the were able to do much of the work without ripping out plaster, he reused the existing conduit, however it cost a little more and resulted in some walls not having sockets.
With lights only it would be possible to use all wireless switches so only cabled under the floor boards not down the walls, however to do this you pay more for switches, so it is up to you to decide what to do, there are options, you could use a TV type remote control if you wished, although I prefer fixed switches. So you would need only two chases, one consumer unit to under floor boards and other to loft space.
It is up to you how it is done. However it does mean there is no need to flout regulations it just needs some thoughts on how to comply.
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Eric ,after six months I expect he has fitted it ,or an alternative by now. Nice story though !
My house was built in 1904 with gas lighting. I have no idea when the PVC cables were installed but as the lighting is 3/029 twin I can make a guess. I don't want my house ripped apart for a rewire, even doing it myself room by room would be a lot of mess and disruption.
I've changed the old fuse board to a modern consumer unit with RCBOs, not perfect but a lot safer than it was.
I'd suggest getting your board changed to either RCBO or RCCD protection just in case you do buy a faulty imported light fitting.
I've changed the old fuse board to a modern consumer unit with RCBOs, not perfect but a lot safer than it was.
I'd suggest getting your board changed to either RCBO or RCCD protection just in case you do buy a faulty imported light fitting.
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Yeah. There's a new member been spending today resurrecting any old thread relating to lighting. One hopes this is not a prelude to lighting spam. I thought that there was a warning came up about necro-posting?
OOPs, I posted then saw how old it was, sorry and thanks for the reprimand DetlefSchmitz (I am not a new member though)
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john I wasn't referring to you! Look upwards till you find the culprit.
Every one of his posts has been taken down:
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