Double sockets

I wonder if double sockets were introduced as a way to reduce the use of adaptors in single sockets, a simple way to add more sockets without any wiring changes. I cannot recall seeing any double sockets in my youth but I do recall seeing a few adaptors in 15 amp sockets.
 
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I wonder if double sockets were introduced as a way to reduce the use of adaptors in single sockets, a simple way to add more sockets without any wiring changes. I cannot recall seeing any double sockets in my youth but I do recall seeing a few adaptors in 15 amp sockets.
That could well be the case, although another factor is probably the fact that the emergence of 13A plugs/sockets (complete with doubles) more-or-less coincided with the start of the explosion of the number of things people had to plug into sockets. My grandparents' electrical installation initALLY fed half a dozen light bulbs and a couple of radios, eventually supplemented by an iron and a B&W telly! Indeed, I seem to recall that the 'power' circuits in those days were usually protected by a 15A fuse, thereby somewhat limiting the usefulness of multiple socket outlets!

There were certainly a lot of adapters around in my youth. 15A to 1x15A + 2x5A was common. Probably the most frightening were the ones which pluged into bayonet lamholders and provided a couple of 2-pin oulets plus a 'replacement' lampholder!

Kind Regards, John.
 
My take on this is that although MK have type tested their sockets to 20A (which IMO is sensible), the standard only relates to 13A outlets and as such other manufacturers have designed to this.
Perhaps MK only emboss 13A on the back to show it has met the standard.
If the standard was changed to cover 20A then all manufacturers would (begrudgingly ?) have to change their designs.
I think there is some confusion here. It appears that everyone has to test their double sockets to 20A total load, since that is what BS1363 requires. However, that obviously does not prevent some of them (e.g. MK) testing their (perhaps superior) products to 26A.

Kind Regards, John
 
Hi

Like bernardgreen and JohnW2 I remember the bayonet to 2-pin 5A adapters. I also remember 5A 2-pin sockets fed from the lighting circuit, and 15A 2-pin (yes 2-pin) power sockets. All these sockets had the plug receptacles at the top, ideal for small inquisitive fingers! In the late 1950s the arrival of the square pinned socket with shutters over the live and neutral opened by the earth pin was a real innovation. If I remember rightly, the first ones were single, unswitched units with the securing screws at the top and bottom. Adapters for these "new" sockets often offered one or two 5A 2-pin (unshuttered) outlets in addition to two 13A outlets. All these sockets were wired with the old 7/029 rubber cable which initially was 2-core and a separate bare earth of 3/029 was run alongside. With the coming of PVC insulation the CPC ran inside the outer sheath. I'm pretty sure most of these cables were aluminium or cupro-aluminium, as they tended to be silver in colour. Anyone else care to reminisce? ---- Oh, and the 5 & 15A sockets were made out of porcelain with brass connectors (as were the light switches!)
 
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Soon after starting in the industry I was involved with a visit to some property near where I was born.

The electrical installation was original and comprised lights in all rooms and one single 15A socket downstairs next to the meter.
 
I rewired a house like that maybe 6 or 7 years ago.

It was all surface clipped lead sheathed cable. One light in each room, a 15A socket on the landing and a cooker outlet with a 15A socket on it in the kitchen. :eek:
 
With the coming of PVC insulation the CPC ran inside the outer sheath. I'm pretty sure most of these cables were aluminium or cupro-aluminium, as they tended to be silver in colour. Anyone else care to reminisce?
I was under the impression that they were tinned copper, but I may be wrong.
---- Oh, and the 5 & 15A sockets were made out of porcelain with brass connectors (as were the light switches!)
What else? :) ... and, of course, many of them were mounted on turned wooden pattresses, the live parts at the back being in perilous proximity to the wood ... and those porcelain light switches often had a screw-on (or screw off, if one was a child!) brass fronts, and brass dollies.

I could do plenty of reminiscing! I'm certainly glad that we've seen the demise of the early 13A plugs, which had 'holes' for the cable in the cover, rather than U-shaped 'cutouts' we now see - I wish I had a pound for every time I connected such a plug, only to have to do it again when I discovered that I'd forgotten to first thread the cable through the hole!

I'm a little surprised that things were so 'dangerous' just 50 years ago. There have, of course, been improvements in materials and manufacturing processes, but we didn't really know much less then about the potential hazards than we do now - and we could have done a lot better, even with the materials and manufacturing processes of the day, had we so wished. I guess it's just a matter of the dramatic change in society's attitude to risks that we've seen over the intervening decades.

Kind Regards, John.
 
I'm a little surprised that things were so 'dangerous' just 50 years ago.

I am not so sure that things were that dangerous. If there was no metalic earthed things in the room then the risk of a lethal electric shock was probably very low. A few finger to finger shocks maybe would happen and provide a few lessons in not fiddling in electrical fittings.

Risks increased when more items were added to the average household like electric appliances and central heating pipe work introducing earthed metal into rooms. The earthed metal work created the risk of fatal electric shocks.

I guess it's just a matter of the dramatic change in society's attitude to risks that we've seen over the intervening decades.

There was a time when common sense and self protection was trusted as a way to protect people. It worked for most people and the presence of risk meant that sensible people looked out for danger and avoided it.

Perhaps a few non sensible people were lost, but that could be said to be an improvment of the gene pool.

Society today, or rather the nanny state, wants to remove all risks and dangers and too many people believe that all danger has been removed and have ceased to practice self protection. And a few ( or maybe a lot ) think that if they are injured or suffer loss from something dangerous they can sue someone and have a financially secure future.
 
I'm a little surprised that things were so 'dangerous' just 50 years ago.
Most of the brass fitting and round-pin plugs dated back 70 years. By 50 years ago new installations looked pretty modern. I have mixed feelings about the loss of concentric earth protection (from earthed steel conduit) without RCDs, which happened with the advent of T+E cabling some 60 years ago.
 
Right, back to the original question!
Having just read through BS 1363: Part 2 1995, it is clear to me that each socket-outlet, whether it be single, an individual socket of a twin, or of a triple, quadruple etc, is rated at 13A and must be tested for breaking capacity at 1.25 X 13 A +- 0.4 A. The apparent reduction to 20 A for a twin socket-outlet relates only to the temperature-rise test. To my mind this only like allowing diversity in the design of any other part of an installation.
As to BAS's request for a photo of a standard UK socket outlet showing the rating marked on the socket which is something other than 13A, if someone were to make such a socket then it wouldn't be a 13A socket, wouldn't comply with BS 1363-2, and therefore wouldn't be a standard UK socket-outlet, which I guess was the point BAS was making.

By the way, I remember well the old 5 and 15 A round pin sockets, as well as the hiding I got after I'd picked myself up off the floor, having just tries to see what would happen if I linked the live and neutral together with a wire from the 12 V train set...
 
All British Standards are the minimum acceptable standard, they do not preclude someone manufacturing a higher standard product. Thus encouraging innovation and progress.

As I understand it, European standards are standards to be achieved and a higher standard product would not comply. Thus discouraging innovation and progress.

Holmslaw, the difference is not between European and British standards, which are usually identical (and identical to the IEC standards) anyway, but between the old way of writing standards as specifications of how to achieve an objective versus the newer way of writing standards that set objectives but don't actually tell you how to achieve them. The old way limits innovation but is often less ambiguous.
 
If you believe that do a bit of research on voltage harmonisation, and how many european countries have adopted our 13A sockets and our crap T&E wiring system.
The process is that virtually all electrical standards are written at an international level by IEC Working Groups, then adopted in Europe as ENs, which have to be published in all CENELEC member countries as technicall-identical national implementations. Unfortunately this process hasn't worked for wiring rules, which are subject to national law in a number of European countries and hence can't be standardised, or socket-otlets, where the existing installed base would make it impractical to harmonise them across Europe.
I agree with the gist of your comment though about the so-called "voltage harmonisation", which was a ****-up, done for political reasons
BS 1363, tells manufacturers exactly how to achieve compliance
No, it tells manufacturers what to achieve, and how to verify that achievement. What I meant was that many years ago a standard would (and some still do) specify materials, dimensions, etc. for each part of a product. BS 1363 doesn't do that (other than the dimensions necessary to ensure interchangeability), it specifies some performance issues such as maximum heat rise, breaking capacity, and so on.
Nonsense, the old way encouraged innovation because they had minimum limits but no maximum limits
Wrong, most standards specify, as they always have, minimum performance requirements. There is nothing to stop manufacturers making a 'better' product by exceeding those requirements, provided they meet the tests of the standard.
European standards are best demonstrated by bananas. Some eurow***er decided on the shape of a standard banana.
If you look on the Europa web site you will find that that myth was debunked some years ago.
 
I'm a little surprised that things were so 'dangerous' just 50 years ago.
I am not so sure that things were that dangerous. If there was no metalic earthed things in the room then the risk of a lethal electric shock was probably very low. A few finger to finger shocks maybe would happen and provide a few lessons in not fiddling in electrical fittings.
Risks increased when more items were added to the average household like electric appliances and central heating pipe work introducing earthed metal into rooms. The earthed metal work created the risk of fatal electric shocks.
That's obviously true to some extent, although I think there is/was a fair risk thatsome people, particularly small children, would use fingers of both hands when 'playing' with something. The increase of appliances with earthed metalwork (mainly in kitchens/utility rooms) clearly increased risks considerably, but I'm a bit doubtful whether central heating pipework will have had much impact; although obvioulsy a theoretical risk, the chances of coming in contact simultaneously with electricity and CH pipes/radiators must be very low.
There was a time when common sense and self protection was trusted as a way to protect people. .....
Society today, or rather the nanny state, wants to remove all risks and dangers and too many people believe that all danger has been removed and have ceased to practice self protection. And a few ( or maybe a lot ) think that if they are injured or suffer loss from something dangerous they can sue someone and have a financially secure future.
I agree totally, and I'm certainly not alone. It's also worth remembering that some of the 'nanny state' stuff actually can increase some risks, not the least by engendering complacency and/or preventing people 'learning lessons from mistakes' (which are usually non-serious/lethal, but go a long way to prevent subsequent dangerous behaviour).

One thing which often gets overlooked is the vast cost (financial and environmental) of all the regulation and protectionism we now 'enjoy'. Sure, some people (including electricians - and, of course, vast numbers of 'administrators') 'benefit' from this in some ways, but the costs to society (hence individuals in the society, and the planet as a whole) is immense, and some sort of consideration really should (in my opinion) be given to the risk/benefit equation.

I fear this at risk of becoming a 'non-electrical' thread :)

Kind Regads, John.
 

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