Downlighters in kitchen ceiling - notifiable??

[paulbristol]

Hi,

Are fitting down lighters in kitchen/bathroom notifiable? I am at a loss from reading the wiki etc as in my opinion the connections are all made in the loft (I live in a top floor flat and the loft is mine) and are not actually "kitchen" connections?

 

[Dippy]

IIRC the regs refer to distance from the sink, the idea being that water can splash a certain distance (3m I think). I think the rules are indeed that this work is notifiable, even if the lights had a high IP rating.

 

[paulbristol]

Grrrrrrrrr

Thought the answer would be this, oh well, will have to speak to the sparky when he comes round later today to price up some other work.

From the pro's on here, would it make a great deal of difference to the price if I was to drill all the holes my self for the lights?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi,

Are fitting down lighters in kitchen/bathroom notifiable? I am at a loss from reading the wiki etc as in my opinion the connections are all made in the loft (I live in a top floor flat and the loft is mine) and are not actually "kitchen" connections?

Connections to lights are always made above the ceiling, and therefore you could always argue that they aren't actually in the room.

Fortunately this fine distinction does not matter, as The Building Regulations talks about adding light fittings in the kitchen, and that's what you're doing, so yes it is notifiable.

IIRC the regs refer to distance from the sink

Which regs are those?

 

[paulbristol]

Connections to lights are always made above the ceiling, and therefore you could always argue that they aren't actually in the room.

Yes that is a very good point

I've just had the sparky round and he has given me a quote of £350 - £450 (to be confirmed tomorrow) to move a cooker connection to the other side of the room (easy access to cable under floor boards) moving a couple of sockets a metre or so along the same wall, adding a new lighting switch to control under bench lighting and adding a a couple of spurs from easily accessable ring main sockets as well as installing 12 down lighters, that is excluding lights/sockets/switches but with cable.

Does that sound in the right ball park?

 

[ltheb]

I'd say that was a VERY good price, though as you can see i'm based in London, thought that's not necessarily a good excuse! However, do ensure the electrician is Part 'P' qualified and a member of a domestic installer scheme as operated by the NICEIC, ECA, etc otherwise he's no better qualified to do the work than you!
Incidentally, REPLACING a light fitting, even in a kitchen is NOT notifiable; ADDING is!
Common non-compliances with down lighters are: not connecting the circuit protective conductor (cpc = 'earth') to the end of the circuit. Mounting non-fire-rated fittings in or near combustible materials, eg joists or lathe and plaster ceilings or under habitiable rooms, eg bedrooms. Specify fire-rated fittings - they only cost a few pounds extra. Also, if you're switching them via a dimmer make sure it's not overloaded. The average, low-cost dimmer switch can usually only handle around 300watts. It's not unusual to see 8 or 10 - 50 watt fittings connected to such, which will, of course burn out within months or weeks.
Sorry to bang on but we've just spent the last two days reinstall about 20 of these for the reasons mentioned and at considerably higher cost than the original (of course the guy who put them in won't return the customer's calls!)

 

[ltheb]

Hi,

Are fitting down lighters in kitchen/bathroom notifiable? I am at a loss from reading the wiki etc as in my opinion the connections are all made in the loft (I live in a top floor flat and the loft is mine) and are not actually "kitchen" connections?

Connections to lights are always made above the ceiling, and therefore you could always argue that they aren't actually in the room.

So... wot's it lighting? The loft??

 

[Spark123]

However, do ensure the electrician is Part 'P' qualified and a member of a domestic installer scheme as operated by the NICEIC, ECA, etc otherwise he's no better qualified to do the work than you!

I served a 4 year apprenticeship and work in heavy industry as an E/I tradesman, I have passed the C&G2381 and 2391 exams. I am not a member of a DIS. Does this mean I am not as qualified as a DIYer? (sorry to the OP in advance)

 

[ltheb]

Sorry, Spark123, I must take more water with it..! My post sounded snooty, and wasn't meant to be... I've just been reading Domster's post re 'consumer unit trouble' and I despair of the jobs that I see and read about where the poor customer has to pay out again to have the job put right.

 

[paulbristol]

Thanks for the replies, I will get a couple of other quote and see how it goes, i'd be reluctant to go with the lowest quote, i think.

I wasn't going to both with fire lights but from your comments I think it is worth while. since I have lots of loft insulation and stuff in the loft which I am sure would just be waiting to catch on fire

 

[Dippy]

IIRC the regs refer to distance from the sink

Which regs are those?

I guess "regs" is a bit strong. SI 2004:3210 refers to “kitchen” means a room or part of a room which contains a sink and food preparation facilities, and then approved document P clarifies the "part of a room" to be an area enclosing 3m from the edge of the sink.

But of course part P is only guidance so I retract my statement. I was only trying to help Paul understand why the notification applies even though the wiring will be in the loft.