Drainage headache see pics

[whathaveibought]

Hi all, hope I'm not exceeding my requests for knowledge from you good people but I have spent hours and hours reading and still trying to come up with a clear plan for my project before work starts. I don't want to be the fool who rushes in!


So here are some pictures and further down the page I will try to explain my aims and objectives for this disaster flat I have recently bought in Surrey!

View of utility room from back of house and showing upstairs flat

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

here you can see the soil pipe in the corner (4" cast iron) and it terminates into a chamber in floor of utility

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

These photo's show the view from the back of my flat - I have a railway track hence the previous owners never look back here. The drainage is a nightmare and the shoddy old roof and timber (ahh!) back wall is actually my utililty where the washing machine is.

I plan to make an entrance into the bathroom via this said utility room and basically change the bathroom layout about by blocking off the old doorway etc.

I am requiring your expertise in order to know what to do with all the pipework. I own the ground floor flat only and am the freeholder. As you can see the people above have added pipework over the years for awashing machine for example and didn't want to branch into the cast iron downpipes so just ran it into the rainwater hopper.

All the waste water from the upstairs bath, washing mahine and rainwater all gather slightly under ground level in my utility! And it gulley chamber thing is not sealed and barely covered! Also I will need to join the WC soil pipe into the flat above's soil pipe which is (yet you guessed it) also in my utility.


So can anyone help with specifiying (or suggesting) the correct network of pipes which is done in accordance to building regs

new first draft CAD drawing of utility cross section

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

new first draft CAD drawing of utility plan

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

view of inside the untility room, a doorway will go in the windows place with lintel etc.

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• whathaveibought
• 12 Jun 2011
• 1

All help appreciated and any comments welcome!

 

[John506]

What an eyesore!! I've never seen a pipe installed like that in a monkey bar fasion!

Why don't you just re-new from the hopper downwards in plastic, that way you can sort the leak under the floor (which if left as it is can cause subsidence), and you have a chance to neaten it all up and box it in? That way you don't have the hassle of asking the people above for money.

It will be a relatively cheap and easy fix. As far as regs go, you can no longer install hoppers unless replacing like for like, so you are good to go on that one.

 

[picasso]

If it was my place I would get a couple of quotes to move the inspection chamber outside the utility room and run all the plumbing down the back of the building, I know you dont want to pay for past bodges but you may have no choice if you want to do it properly.

 

[whathaveibought]

If it was my place I would get a couple of quotes to move the inspection chamber outside the utility room and run all the plumbing down the back of the building, I know you dont want to pay for past bodges but you may have no choice if you want to do it properly.

Yes very true would do this normally but in my case I have a railway track running behind the house and where I stood to take the pictures is Network rail's property. So I can get any underground drains relocated to anywhere out of the boundary.


I think I will have to replace the whole soil stack with pvc type as cast iron and add a stub stack at the base in the utility and ensure everything is sealed up well and the inspection cover is double sealed interior type. All a bit of a balls ache just for 2sq mtrs of utility space but it reallys helps in a two bed flat. Also the utility can't be left as it is any longer and with winter coming up with will make the rest of the flat could.


I am currently looking costs to buy all the drainage parts and if it's feasible for me to do. I just gets really tricky when I have to think about building regs.

Thanks a lot

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Looking at this (and your other post ), assuming its not too corroded or leaking, i'd be inclined to leave existing iron stack (in the corner) as is. (Less work!)

Remove the hopper and downpipe, and dig out existing gulley in utility room. Couple onto outlet from former gulley, and install appropriate piece of drain and new 110mm plastic stack with AAV on the top. Reconnect the wastes above the roof into the new plastic stack, tidy up as necessary. Join existing wastes in utility room into new stack at appropriate level. All now sealed. (Run whatever you decide past BCO though for approval!)

 

[whathaveibought]

What an eyesore!! I've never seen a pipe installed like that in a monkey bar fasion!

Why don't you just re-new from the hopper downwards in plastic, that way you can sort the leak under the floor (which if left as it is can cause subsidence), and you have a chance to neaten it all up and box it in? That way you don't have the hassle of asking the people above for money.

It will be a relatively cheap and easy fix. As far as regs go, you can no longer install hoppers unless replacing like for like, so you are good to go on that one.

'Thanks' added cheers.

 

[whathaveibought]

Looking at this (and your other post ), assuming its not too corroded or leaking, i'd be inclined to leave existing iron stack (in the corner) as is. (Less work!)

Remove the hopper and downpipe, and dig out existing gulley in utility room. Couple onto outlet from former gulley, and install appropriate piece of drain and new 110mm plastic stack with AAV on the top. Reconnect the wastes above the roof into the new plastic stack, tidy up as necessary. Join existing wastes in utility room into new stack at appropriate level. All now sealed. (Run whatever you decide past BCO though for approval!)

Much appreciated again Hugh. So it sounds like it makes sense in the area of the soil stack to cut the iron pipe and join on modern pvc type with rubber/julbee clip connector. That way I won't need to involve the flat upstairs other than ask them not to have a c*** for a few hours!

Under the man hole cover it is a three-way junction, one going to upstairs flat's loo, other to my loo and the last to the outside corner rainwater/washing machine waste pipe as pictured. I will therefore (I think) need to dig out one of the junctions and connect up a plastic stub stack - is this correct? What will happen to the old gulley where all the unsightly pipes run into? Or would this one also be converted to new plastic type?


I have found some very usefull leaflets from Wickes I will try to study those a bit to be crystal clear on all drainage fittings and fixtures relating to my project. It's quite hard to describe things as there are two downpipes one soil one waste/guttering. Must dash thanks a lot for now

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd leave the stack for upstairs toilet well alone if its not presenting a problem. Going to make you more work (and expense) to change it, and you'd also need access to flat above to change pipe up to the pan, pan connector, making good etc. Unless its leaking or badly rusted leave well alone otherwise you'll be making a lot of aggro for the sake of it.

My suggestion was to tidy up the wastes, connecting those into a plastic pipe, join this to the existing pipework underground. If you remove the old gulley, then the pipe from this can be used, simply fit an appropriate collar to convert from clayware to plastic.

 

[Agile]

If your property has seperate soil drains and rainwater then its incorrect ( illegal ) for the washing machine upstairs to discharge into the rainwater drain!

Tony

 

[whathaveibought]

If your property has seperate soil drains and rainwater then its incorrect ( illegal ) for the washing machine upstairs to discharge into the rainwater drain!

Tony

Hey Tony, I think as its late 18th century it has just the one drainage system for surface water and soil waste, or at least to my knowledge. But I shall investigate further as the guttering at the front of the house all runs into a gulley but I should think it ends up in the same place further downstream.

 

[whathaveibought]

Dear Plumbing, Soil pipe and drainage experts (especially Hugh

Sketch of rear of property looking at utility from railtrack showing proposed soilpipe arrangement:

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• whathaveibought
• 29 Jul 2011
• 1

Sketch of new bathroom waste pipe arrangements:

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• whathaveibought
• 29 Jul 2011
• 1

CAD elevation drawing showing creative design for new bathroom + utility door:

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• whathaveibought
• 29 Jul 2011
• 1

CAD Plan drawing showing creative design for new bathroom and utility:

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• whathaveibought
• 29 Jul 2011
• 1

Having been in contact with some people on here a few months back I have had various people around to view the work with the aim of them doing it. However some folk never even submitted a quote and others wanted the price of a new car to do it. So I am back to considering doing as much of the basic (ie donkey) work I can and getting in trademen to carry out a few tasks for cash and me scheduling it all and working out the correct sequence.


I am hoping you could have a look at my designs and give a bit of feed back as to the logic or if conventional or not. Just let me know if anything stands out being the 'wrong way to do it'. Since I am replacing mostly old for new and carrying out maintenance I am less inclinded to pay building control for every 'job' that needs doing around the house and there are lots of them. Many builders commented that it is all basic repair work.


One suggestion was to leave the 'corner' CI downpipe as is in order to avoid any disruption with people in upstair's flat and their loo respectively. I would therefore need to run a complete new plastic downpipe and fittings near to the outside wall at the back of the property. Although since there is a new cavity wall being built along the back there the pipe would need to be set in slightly by about 350mm. Also I am a bit confused as the rainwater guttering would need to link into this same downpipe. In the sketch I didn't know how to draw this at this moment. All the drains in the property are shared for surface water and soil waste it is not split as Victorian etc.



So hope someone can give me a few pointers before any work starts otherwise I could try and charm the plumbing shop to help a bit with advice in exchange for me buying their pluming fittings for my renewal job!


Thanks a lot


Aaron

 

[ChrisR]

Don't bother asking shop assistants!

I'd call BCO and try to esplain what you're doing. In my exp they're pretty helpful. Very likely they'll come and look to advise on what's ok and what's not on the drainage side, since what you have is shared with someone else, who's done it wrong! You needn't tell him that you're the landlord of the upstairs flat.
Ask for someone with experience if you can, some of the youngsters they employ can be a bit..... wanting.

 

[Onetap]

Hey Tony, I think as its late 18th century it has just the one drainage system for surface water and soil waste, or at least to my knowledge. But I shall investigate further as the guttering at the front of the house all runs into a gulley but I should think it ends up in the same place further downstream.

That would be unusual; I think it more common that there are foul and surface water drains. The surface (rain) water goes into the local stream. The water authorities do occasional checks to find the source of detergent foam and macerated toilet waste finding its way into the streams and will cut any offending drains off.

The foul drains and WCs are probably later additions, the house would have had no internal plumbing circa 18th C.

If you look you will find two (or maybe just one) manholes on the drain somewhere. You can trace them with dye. If the drain route isn't apparent, Thames Water will have drawings showing their drains and manholes. You need to research this before progressing plans for the drain repairs.

 

[whathaveibought]

Hey Tony, I think as its late 18th century it has just the one drainage system for surface water and soil waste, or at least to my knowledge. But I shall investigate further as the guttering at the front of the house all runs into a gulley but I should think it ends up in the same place further downstream.

That would be unusual; I think it more common that there are foul and surface water drains. The surface (rain) water goes into the local stream. The water authorities do occasional checks to find the source of detergent foam and macerated toilet waste finding its way into the streams and will cut any offending drains off.

The foul drains and WCs are probably later additions, the house would have had no internal plumbing circa 18th C.

If you look you will find two (or maybe just one) manholes on the drain somewhere. You can trace them with dye. If the drain route isn't apparent, Thames Water will have drawings showing their drains and manholes. You need to research this before progressing plans for the drain repairs.

Hello, I have just done some further checks to investigate this further as you had got me thinking... So out in the garden which belongs to the upstairs flat there is another man hole cover. I flushed our toilet and could see that the water was flowing from my man hole chamber (in the utility floor) and then the water continued until it reached the outside drain. I then used the garden hose to add water to a drain which the rainwater runs into from the roof and I could also see that this water ended up at the outside man hole drain. See I can't therefore see any other places that the surface water is going to and can only be a combined drainage system.


The property is an unusual building as it's detached, unlike any of other houses in the road and could have been an old station keeper's house before it was converted into two flats.


Thanks for your input and any other advice gladly received!

 

[whathaveibought]

Don't bother asking shop assistants!

I'd call BCO and try to esplain what you're doing. In my exp they're pretty helpful. Very likely they'll come and look to advise on what's ok and what's not on the drainage side, since what you have is shared with someone else, who's done it wrong! You needn't tell him that you're the landlord of the upstairs flat.
Ask for someone with experience if you can, some of the youngsters they employ can be a bit..... wanting.

Oh I'm not the landlord though I just own the freehold and they have a 99 yr lease. I may get down the council office during the week as have some time off work. Just fearful every little job will need hefty payments to the council when all I need to do is make the flat safe, warm, hygienic, drain smell free, etc

Thanks for that!