Draughty new composite door

[foreverchanges]

0.4mm as in half a millimetre? It looks a lot more than that looking at the gap along the bottom. If 0.4mm and 0.3mm are correct then its well within tolerance, so the drafts have to done via adjustment which I can't believe the fitted didn't or couldn't do, its basic stuff

Ooops sorry I meant 4mm and 3mm respectively!

 

[crank39]

Different story now, certainly asthetically the gap along the bottom is unacceptable, maybe the fitter knew he couldn't alter this which is why he said he'll speak to the manufacturer who knows. The 3mm in the width is borderline siding on acceptable to me.

But the door shouldn't be drafty either way

 

[robinbanks]

though he emphasised doors were not airtight like fridges and I should expect some air???

Mine is; that's a fob off

 

[foreverchanges]

He was back before Xmas and agreed with my measurements so he's gone back to the manufacturer about a new surround. I've noticed draughts round the 3 hinges now as well as elsewhere that I'd noticed previously. I've also got a problem with the upvc door he installed for my back door, it's catching on a protrusion at the top side of the frame when I close it so another problem. I'm also starting a new thread about a window he installed so all his work seems to be unravelling.

 

[foreverchanges]

He installed the new surround so everything looks uniform now as regards the door fitting the frame well but there are still draughts around the hinges and where the handle is. I've been onto Citizens Advice and they sent me a pro forma letter to send about poor workmanship but i said I don't think it's about poor workmanship re the trader I just think the door/frame combo has a design problem. They said I can raise that with the trader but if he has installed the door to manufacturers instructions and says he can't do any more I'd have to pay him in full or agree a sum with him and that he's at least entitled to be paid for his labour which would be 2 men and a boy for 2 days at 7/8 hours per day. It's a messy situation, any ideas what to do?

As crank39 posted when I first mentioned, my door is the same as that and it's the same with the hinges. So if the problem is with the door set-up and not the workmanship where does that leave me? For £2000 I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a draughtproof door for £2000, I would never have ordered a composite door if i'd been told it'll be draughty where the latch and hinges are. I thought a new door would help me keep heating bills down not put them up

 

[robinbanks]

I thought a new door would help me keep heating bills down not put them up

You need to quantify how draughty, in terms of volume of air passed per unit time, before making that assumption. Ventilation is an effective strategy for combatting low indoor air quality, high humidity and mould and nearly every building has small gaps in the fabric that trickle air in/out. It's not normally of huge concern at a very low level because air doesn't have a huge capacity for storing heat energy; the bit that is lost accounts for a very small proportion of the heat loss from the building (if you provide volumes, it can be worked out)
Standing next to the door and saying "oh, I can feel cold air" doesn't quantify it enough to say whether it's a problem that will significantly affect the heating bill, and the insulation inside the door may represent a bigger improvement (lowering) of the heat loss of the property compared to the old door

It's possible to improve the draught sealing of the door yourself; for example I would say it's rare for manufacturers to keep a draught sealing strip continuous over a hinge - the strip is normally part of the profile, and gets interrupted by the hinge. Applying a slim foam strip that the hinge compresses when closed, to make the draught exclusion continuous, would perhaps reduce what you feel.. However, unless you live in an immaculately detailed passivhaus (which we know not to be the case, as such houses don't have heating bills) it would be overkill - somewhere else in your property there is a bigger hole/gap/crack that should be tended to first

 

[foreverchanges]

Y
Standing next to the door and saying "oh, I can feel cold air" doesn't quantify it enough to say whether it's a problem that will significantly affect the heating bill, and the insulation inside the door may represent a bigger improvement (lowering) of the heat loss of the property compared to the old door

It's possible to improve the draught sealing of the door yourself; for example I would say it's rare for manufacturers to keep a draught sealing strip continuous over a hinge - the strip is normally part of the profile, and gets interrupted by the hinge. Applying a slim foam strip that the hinge compresses when closed, to make the draught exclusion continuous, would perhaps reduce what you feel.. However, unless you live in an immaculately detailed passivhaus (which we know not to be the case, as such houses don't have heating bills) it would be overkill - somewhere else in your property there is a bigger hole/gap/crack that should be tended to first

Well I've had to have my central heating on more than I ever have before because of this. I have a gas fire and that's usually enough to keep me warm in my living room but now the side of me nearest the door feels the cold on a night. If I'd been told the door wouldn't be 100% draughtproof like my old door was I would never have got it - my back door was replaced at the same time and it's upvc and it's draughtproof and cost a lot less, I was conned into thinking a composite door would give me even better thermal insulation than that . I don't think I should be having to apply anything to a new door to make it draughtproof when it cost £2000

 

[ZS123]

Well I've had to have my central heating on more than I ever have before because of this. I have a gas fire and that's usually enough to keep me warm in my living room but now the side of me nearest the door feels the cold on a night. If I'd been told the door wouldn't be 100% draughtproof like my old door was I would never have got it - my back door was replaced at the same time and it's upvc and it's draughtproof and cost a lot less, I was conned into thinking a composite door would give me even better thermal insulation than that . I don't think I should be having to apply anything to a new door to make it draughtproof when it cost £2000

Hi did you ever get this solved?

 

[foreverchanges]

Hi did you ever get this solved?

No. There isn't a solution as far as we can see. As there is no draught excluder over the latch plate and the hinges There's always going to be draughts as the door won't close if there was draught excluder over them. When we had storm Claudia the other week the draught at the latch plate area was strong enough to blow a flame out. I got in touch with Citizen's advice and they told me there's nothing we can do re the tradesman as it's a design fault with composite doors. I was conned into thinking at £2k it would be draughtproof, never again

 

[ZS123]

Thank you for update, similar here but the more significant issue is it lets water in at the bottom, despite the drains being clear. The inner brush seal absorbs water from the channel in the frame and then it seeps inside, fundamentally flawed design it seems, company coming out for 3rd time but don't hold much hope. If it's adjusted tight enough to seal you then can't open the damn thing when the sun shines on it and it expands!

 

[foreverchanges]

Thank you for update, similar here but the more significant issue is it lets water in at the bottom, despite the drains being clear. The inner brush seal absorbs water from the channel in the frame and then it seeps inside, fundamentally flawed design it seems, company coming out for 3rd time but don't hold much hope. If it's adjusted tight enough to seal you then can't open the damn thing when the sun shines on it and it expands!

Not had that problem fortunately. BTW we wrote to Gap who made the door but they didn't reply so far. If I ever have to get another door it'll be timber or uPVC

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I got in touch with Citizen's advice and they told me there's nothing we can do re the tradesman as it's a design fault with composite doors. I was conned into thinking at £2k it would be draughtproof, never again

We have two composite doors, both directly face the prevailing wind. Both have an outer seal, which the doors seal tight against, and neither one suffers much leakage. The worst leakages are the side door, which due to the lock type, has a flow straight through, and the letter slot, on the front door. Compared to the timber doors we had before, they are much better, and much more secure too.

 

[robinbanks]

The inner brush seal absorbs water from the channel in the frame and then it seeps inside

Adjust the frame profile with drain grooves/holes so the water cannot reach this brush? There's been another thread here lately with a similar problem

Have you uploaded any pics?

I got in touch with Citizen's advice and they told me there's nothing we can do re the tradesman as it's a design fault with composite doors

This seems incredibly unlikely? All composite doors are draughty? Why would a composite door latch be so significantly different to a PVC door latch that one leaks and the other doesn't?

 

[ZS123]

Adjust the frame profile with drain grooves/holes so the water cannot reach this brush? There's been another thread here lately with a similar problem

Have you uploaded any pics?


This seems incredibly unlikely? All composite doors are draughty? Why would a composite door latch be so significantly different to a PVC door latch that one leaks and the other doesn't?

, edit: found the post now

 

[ronniecabers]

Crank39 did mention earlier in this thread that the brush pile isn't the only gasket , there is a gasket on the outer rebate of the door frame, if the door is adjusted for compression correctly , and the door handle is pulled up every time to engage the locks, thus fully compressing the door on the rubber/foam seals then No air or water should be getting passed that door frame. Composite Doors are NOT ' inherently ' draughty
People are focusing too much on the ' fir ' gasket , this is not the issue ,it sounds more like a ' compression ' issue or potentially a warped slab. What colour is the door
The compression should be able to be adjusted on the Hinges AND on the lock keeps . But key is ALWAYS pull the handle up to engage the lock for full compression. Too many Installers fail to tell customers this and its a key element of a composite ( and Upvc door)