driveshaft problem

[Rapporman]

I have just bought an M reg (1995) 1.4 RT auto Clio with a genuine 37000 on the clock and is in immaculate condition inside and out except for what I think are worn inner CV joints causing a very soft thump, thump, thump noise when I drive which I can best describe as though there was something stuck to the tyre. The sound is definitely not a sharp clicking sound as referred to in the Haynes manual but is a soft monotonous one. I think there is also a continuous rumbling noise in the background but I am not sure if that is part of the noisy drive you get with the Clio. However, the thumping noise is more noticeable when I drive slowly but remains the same whether I drive straight or round corners. It appears to be relative to the speed of the car as it becomes unnoticeable at around 60mph.

There is no play in the outer CV joint but there is in the inner one. ie the amount of travel on both front wheels is about 25mm as measured at the outer diameter of the tyre. I have had both tyres checked for balance, alignment and faulty rims and the PAS is firm and positive and my queries are:-

1. Is the amount of play in the front wheels normal or would you say the inner CV joints are definitely worn and would cause the noise I refer to.

2. If the inner CV joints on the driveshaft are worn, does this mean the relative parts of the transmission itself will be worn. If so what is the point of fitting new driveshafts as there are no repair kits available for Clio auto tansmissions or do new driveshafts compensate for any wear in the transmission side ?

3. What are the consequences of just leaving things as they are and driving with care ?

I appreciate that a garage could answer these questions but I would like to be forarmed with the answers to avoid being given a load of old b******s by the mechanic when I take it in to be done.

 

[Softus]

1. Is the amount of play in the front wheels normal or would you say the inner CV joints are definitely worn and would cause the noise I refer to.

Close enough to normal not to worry, IMHO.

2. If the inner CV joints on the driveshaft are worn, does this mean the relative parts of the transmission itself will be worn.

No. But it doesn't mean they won't either.

If so what is the point of fitting new driveshafts as there are no repair kits available for Clio auto tansmissions or do new driveshafts compensate for any wear in the transmission side ?

Er, no.

3. What are the consequences of just leaving things as they are and driving with care ?

well, if it is actually a fault, and there is vibration, then you'll be wearing out other things faster than is normal.

Is there any vibration?

I appreciate that a garage could answer these questions but I would like to be forarmed with the answers to avoid being given a load of old b******s by the mechanic when I take it in to be done.[/quote]

 

[Rapporman]

Thanks for responding Softus. I am relieved to note your comment about the amount of play not seeming to be excessive and I must admit there is no slackness or jolting when I pull away or decelerate and I do not get any physical viabration either through the gear shift, pedals or steering wheel. It is just as though one of my tyres was soft but instead of getting a flap, flap. flap sound, it is a deeper, softer phut, phut type sound which I can almost live with if I do not find out what it is.

I did think it might possibly be a bent driveshaft but I am relunctant to put the car on chocks, start up and put it in gear to have a look as I have never done this before and am a bit worried about getting underneath to watch the driveshafts while its running ! What do you think about the bent shaft idea and have you ever run the car on chocks and got underneath ?

 

[Softus]

It is just as though one of my tyres was soft but instead of getting a flap, flap. flap sound, it is a deeper, softer phut, phut type sound which I can almost live with if I do not find out what it is.

Hmm. What frequency do you hear, and at what road speed?

I did think it might possibly be a bent driveshaft but I am relunctant to put the car on chocks, start up and put it in gear to have a look as I have never done this before and am a bit worried about getting underneath to watch the driveshafts while its running !

What do you think about the bent shaft idea...

I think you would get a lot of vibration from a bent drive shaft.

...and have you ever run the car on chocks and got underneath?

I presume you mean axle stands?!

Well, I have done this, but I don't think I've felt the need to get underneath - can't you view everything from above?

 

[Rapporman]

Hi Softus.

1. The frequency is related to one turn of the road wheel and the faster I go, the more frequent the sound.

2. As I dont get any physical viabration, I'll ignore the bent driveshaft theory.

3. Yes, I do mean axle stands - it was just easier to say 'chocks'. I can see the n/s drive but the engine obscures the other one but if I had to do this I would probably pay a garage just to check the drives.

As a matter of interest what sounds and/or sensations would you normally experience if the inner d/s's were (a) Partly worn and (b) excessively worn ?

 

[Softus]

The frequency is related to one turn of the road wheel and the faster I go, the more frequent the sound.

If it's caused by a road wheel then changing that wheel for the spare will stop it. This will at least eliminate one possible cause.

Does the noise ever stop, for example above a certain speed?

As a matter of interest what sounds and/or sensations would you normally experience if the inner d/s's were (a) Partly worn and (b) excessively worn ?

I'm confused again - is this another 'chocks' incident? The shaft itself can't wear, so exactly which component do you suspect of being worn?

 

[^neo^]

I had the same problem with a pug 106 which is basically the same car. Inner CV joint had slight play but knocked like f**k when driving it.
Changed it over for a nice new (to me) one and problem solved

 

[Softus]

...knocked like f**k when driving it.

That's just the point though ^neo^ - this one doesn't make a knocking sound.

 

[Rapporman]

Hi Softus and Neo.

Before going any further with this, I am going to try Softus's suggestion about changing the front wheels and you are probably thinking why on earth have'nt I done this already. The reason is that the first thing I did was to explain the problem to the tyre garage I use and they checked and balanced the front tyres and said they seemed perfectly ok. I assumed therefore there was no problem with the tyres or wheels but now you mention it, I will try putting the unbalanced rear ones on the front and see if there is any change in the sound and if you can bear with me a bit longer, I will get back to you with the result.

To answer your second point, I don't think the sound actually stops at speed but simply gets more frequent as I accelerate and by the time I'm up to 60, the sound has merged with the general road noise which Clios are prone to, so I cant really answer that.

And yes, it was another 'chocks ' incident (well observed Softus). I meant the inner CVJ's of course and yes, it isnt a knocking sound as you would get when the big ends are going which I assume was what Neo experienced. If it wasn't then please let me know Neo.

 

[Softus]

...if you can bear with me a bit longer, I will get back to you with the result.

Okey dokey.

I meant the inner CVJ's of course and yes, it isnt a knocking sound as you would get when the big ends are going which I assume was what Neo experienced.

Er, a "big end bearing" is the larger of the two con-rod bearings, where the con-rod connects to the crankshaft, deep inside the engine - it has nothing to do with the drive shaft(s).

Chocks away!

 

[Rapporman]

Hi Softus. I have had to summon up all my courage to write this post because I'm sitting here feeling a complete and utter idiot. Today I changed one front wheel and the sound stopped, so I owe you mate. Don't ask me what was wrong with it because I cannot see anything unusual but I am taking it back to the tyre garage to find out. The tyre was not new when I bought the car, so it may have been a faulty used one but how the garage managed to balance it, is what I intend to find out.

Once again many thanks for your help.

 

[Trazor]

Hi Softus. I have had to summon up all my courage to write this post because I'm sitting here feeling a complete and utter idiot. Today I changed one front wheel and the sound stopped, so I owe you mate. Don't ask me what was wrong with it because I cannot see anything unusual but I am taking it back to the tyre garage to find out. The tyre was not new when I bought the car, so it may have been a faulty used one but how the garage managed to balance it, is what I intend to find out.

Once again many thanks for your help.

I had a similar problem, with an unidentified wheel noise.
The noise sounded like ....shush... but shortened to sh......if you get my meaning. This would disappear at 50 mph and above.
Eventually the noise was found to be a very loose wheel trim, which could rotate very easily.
2 tie wraps fixed the problem.....

 

[Softus]

I have had to summon up all my courage to write this post because I'm sitting here feeling a complete and utter idiot.

Don't feel bad Rapporman - if you never felt stupid you'd never feel alive.

If you think that none of the regulars here is ever foolish then you're mistaken - have a look at this:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77487

You don't owe me anything - gratitude is more than enough. I'm just glad that your problem is solved.

Edit: removed hideous spelling misteak.

 

[Rapporman]

I just HAD to reply Softus. I looked up that thread and could not stop laughing. Having been in the building trade all my life, I could just imagine the tales these lads told - T'was a real tonic and am passing it on to my brothers who have the same sense of humour. Many thanks.