Earth cable at gas meter.

[JohnHarrison]

A few years back I had a Spark to install RCBO's and check the electrics. He installed all RCBO's in the CU and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter. The gas meter and electric meter are near with a gap between. He said the cable must be clamped within 600mm of the gas meter. The copper gas pipe runs through the electric meter cupboard. He clamped the earth cable inside the electric meter at just 600mm. Another Spark has said the earth cable has to run into the gas meter and be clamped right at the meter outlet because its has to before any "joint". The first Spark who did it said it has to be before any "junction", which means a tee. There is no tee. Running an earth cable back to the gas meter means messing up the decorations and it will look ugly on the surface.

Who is right?

 

[EFLImpudence]

A few years back I had a Spark to install RCBO's and check the electrics. He installed all RCBO's in the CU and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter.

Right.

The gas meter and electric meter are near with a gap between. He said the cable must be clamped within 600mm of the gas meter.

Correct.

The copper gas pipe runs through the electric meter cupboard. He clamped the earth cable inside the electric meter at just 600mm.

Right.

Another Spark has said the earth cable has to run into the gas meter and be clamped right at the meter outlet because its has to before any "joint".

Within 600mm before any branches, yes.

The first Spark who did it said it has to be before any "junction", which means a tee. There is no tee.

Is that not the same thing?

Running an earth cable back to the gas meter means messing up the
decorations and it will look ugly on the surface.

But you said it was done correctly.

 

[JohnHarrison]

I did not say anything was done correctly. Please get my point.

1) One says the clamp must be before a junction (a tee).
2) The other says the clamp must be before a "joint" (i.e. a pipe joint like a soldered elbow).

 

[AlanE]

As a former 'gasman' the gas pipe earth clamp should be within 600mm of the meter before any join.

 

[Lectrician]

Before any TEE, not JOINT. Assuming by joint, you simply mean a joint, not a tee or junction?

So, within 600mm AND before any TEE (not a joint).

 

[JohnHarrison]

Before any TEE, not JOINT. Assuming by joint, you simply mean a joint, not a tee or junction?

So, within 600mm AND before any TEE (not a joint).

Thanks. Yes a "tee" not a soldered coupler or elbow. The first Spark said the 600m is a guide and 1 metre instead of 600mm still would pass the regs. He said it was a valued on site decision. So the first was right about the "joint" (tee). Is he right about being 1 metre of so away. I personally cannot the difference between 600mm and 1 metre or so in the safety aspect. The first Spark, said they have to give some figures to work to, so 600mm was chosen.

 

[Lectrician]

544.1.2 The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as
practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that
point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any
branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the
point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks. Yes a "tee" not a soldered coupler or elbow. The first Spark said the 600m is a guide and 1 metre instead of 600mm still would pass the regs. He said it was valued on site decision. So the first was right about the "joint" (tee). Is he right about being 1 metre of so away. I personally cannot the difference between 600mm and 1 metre or so in the safety aspect. The first Spark, said they have to give some figures to work to, so 600mm was chosen.

I think there is probably some over-worrying about minor details here. The regs do not actually say anything about 'joints' but, rather, that the bonding should be "before any branch pipework" (i.e. before any 'tee'). Furthermore, the references to 600mm are qualified by "where practicable".

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Duplicate deleted

 

[EFLImpudence]

1) One says the clamp must be before a junction (a tee).
2) The other says the clamp must be before a "joint" (i.e. a pipe joint like a soldered elbow).

Ok. I now see the distinction you are making - but:

and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter.

Does that not cover both electricians' demands?

Although now you are saying it is a metre away so not on the outlet of the meter.

 

[JohnW2]

and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter.

Does that not cover both electricians' demands?

It would seem so - so, like you, I'm not sure that I understand what the problem/question really is. If it is connected close to the outlet of the meter, it will surely be before any 'joints' or any 'tees' (or, in regs-speak, 'before any branch pipework')?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ekmdgrf]

My interpretation is this:

The OP had some work done by a spark and he added an earthing clamp to the gas pipe. It was connected 600mm away from the meter and after an joint in the pipe. The spark told him this was acceptable because the connection was made within 600mm of the meter and was before any junction in the pipework

A second spark then said the current earth clamp was not connected in the correct place because while it was within 600mm of the pipe work, it came after a join in the pipe.

So the crooks of the argument comes down to this: it is acceptable to attach an earth clamp to a gas pipe after a joint in the pipe? The argument also seems to hinge on the definitions of "joint" and "junction". I'm going with:

Joint : a point were two lengths of pipe are connected together by means of a pipe fitting

Junction : a point where one pipe divides into two or more pipes by means of a pipe fitting.

So, a junction is always a joint but a joint is never a junction

I didn't miss anything did I?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Bond.

'Junction' does not appear in the regulations.
'Branch pipework' may be the same but defining junction does not help.

What is the reason for 'before any branch pipework' and could it also apply to a joint?

As the bond should really be before the meter it does seem somewhat unnecessary.

 

[JohnW2]

So the crooks of the argument comes down to this: it is acceptable to attach an earth clamp to a gas pipe after a joint in the pipe? The argument also seems to hinge on the definitions of "joint" and "junction". I'm going with:
Joint : a point were two lengths of pipe are connected together by means of a pipe fitting
Junction : a point where one pipe divides into two or more pipes by means of a pipe fitting.
So, a junction is always a joint but a joint is never a junction
I didn't miss anything did I?

Well, you may have missed the fact that BS7671 does not say that it has to be before a 'joint' or 'junction' - but, rather, that it has to be before any 'branch pipework' - which I would say clearly corresponds to the 'junction' you define above, doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

and fitted an earth cable to the copper gas pipe on the outlet of the meter.

Does that not cover both electricians' demands?

It would seem so ...

I think I was maybe too quick in 'believing' (without checking) the quote from the OP which you posted!!

I can't see where that quote came from. I can see nothing about the second electrician having "fitted an earth cable ... on the outlet of the meter", only that the second electrician said that it should be connected to the outlet of the meter. Does one of us need a trip to Specsavers?

Kind Regards, John