I have just had a utility room built. When finished (!), it will have a sink fitted, same as a kitchen type. My question is: do the hot & cold pipes under the new sink require earthing or not? They are simply extensions of the H & C pipes that supply the kitchen, and both those are earthed with a link back to the consumer unit. As the pipes are earthed already, I am unsure as to whether they need additiobnal clamps on or not? Any advise would be helpful. Also, am I correct in thinking that you no longer need to add an earth to a metal sink itself? I was trained on the 15th Edition, and we had to back then!! Thanks.
Earthing advice
- Thread starter sparklymarkly
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Is there a bath, shower or swimming pool in the same in the same room, or in very close proximity 
If not, dont worry - put your bonding clips and cable away, and tell your plumber to ease up! (Im not saying your plumber has coaxed you......YET )
If not, dont worry - put your bonding clips and cable away, and tell your plumber to ease up! (Im not saying your plumber has coaxed you......YET
)
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No. Go out and get a 2381 Update!!
16th no longer advises supp bond in kitchens or similar.
16th no longer advises supp bond in kitchens or similar.
B
Big_Spark
securespark said:
Yet another load of bad advice from the numpties at the IEE....
(This is a comment on the advice, not on Secures post)
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Thanks all for the advice. Clamps back in the toolbox then!!
I don't think I understand the reasoning here. In a bathroom, you're likely to be wet, with lots of exposed skin, so any* exposed metal is supposed to be bonded so that if you touch two bits with different parts of your exposed skin, there should be no PD between them.
But if you're washing up, with your sleeves rolled up, and wearing shorts or a short skirt according to taste, or swabbing the floor with no shoes, then why wouldn't the same risks apply in the kitchen? My sink and pipework are all bonded and linked to the electrical earth, and the incoming water pipe and the CU are connected to the suppliers earthing point; I don't see why that isn't just as good an idea in a kitchen as in a bathroom.
Is there something I've missed?
*yes, i know about odd coathooks and shelf brackets etc.
But if you're washing up, with your sleeves rolled up, and wearing shorts or a short skirt according to taste, or swabbing the floor with no shoes, then why wouldn't the same risks apply in the kitchen? My sink and pipework are all bonded and linked to the electrical earth, and the incoming water pipe and the CU are connected to the suppliers earthing point; I don't see why that isn't just as good an idea in a kitchen as in a bathroom.
Is there something I've missed?
*yes, i know about odd coathooks and shelf brackets etc.
Hi,
I think that there is a basic problem here which cannot be answered by a do/don't answer and probably the writers of the regs have used accident data to go for a most likely scenario. Suppose you have a faulty toaster on an isolated stainless sink worktop causing the worktop to become "live". With no bonding or RCCD protection, touching this and the tap (earthed by default, but isolated from the sink by a plastic washer) would allow the current would go through your heart and ruin your entire day. Is this likely? On the other hand there have been a number of electrocutions when people have had a faulty appliance in one hand and then touched an earthed sink. True the latter is often a class 1 / industrial /hired appliance with a faulty earth, but ?? I suggest that this is where a professional electrician would look at the whole system for ensuring safety and not just this section.
V
I think that there is a basic problem here which cannot be answered by a do/don't answer and probably the writers of the regs have used accident data to go for a most likely scenario. Suppose you have a faulty toaster on an isolated stainless sink worktop causing the worktop to become "live". With no bonding or RCCD protection, touching this and the tap (earthed by default, but isolated from the sink by a plastic washer) would allow the current would go through your heart and ruin your entire day. Is this likely? On the other hand there have been a number of electrocutions when people have had a faulty appliance in one hand and then touched an earthed sink. True the latter is often a class 1 / industrial /hired appliance with a faulty earth, but ?? I suggest that this is where a professional electrician would look at the whole system for ensuring safety and not just this section.
V
viewer said:
Thing is, even with no supplementary bonding, if you've got copper pipes then the sink is probably earthed anyway.
And given that, then the argument about a faulty appliance doesn't wash - with a faulty appliance it would probably be safer for a sink to be isolated so that no fault current flows on the appliance-person-sink path.
Although, with all sockets RCD protected, then having lots of earth is generally a good thing.
All in all, I think it's a bit odd. However, I'm personally not caring much because my main bonding is in the kitchen so the sink must be very close to earth potential, without any contravention of the regs from extra bonding.
Haven't got the regs in front of me. Is it a "must not be bonded", or a "don't need to be bonded"? cos I guess there's a difference there.
Hi
I don't say I agree (or disagree) with the "rules", but NICEIC say that bonding to kitchen sinks is not considered necessary or desirable. My point was that advice often changes according to events - here a number of people killed in the period up to writing of the advice. Perhaps more importantly there is a problem with confidence that taps and copper pipe give a satisfactory earth path. Unless sufficient current flows during fault conditions then the protection will not operate. Whether electrically connecting sink to pipework makes a difference depends upon a number of points, but bonding gives an equal potential across the two not guaranteed earth for a fault current.
I don't say I agree (or disagree) with the "rules", but NICEIC say that bonding to kitchen sinks is not considered necessary or desirable. My point was that advice often changes according to events - here a number of people killed in the period up to writing of the advice. Perhaps more importantly there is a problem with confidence that taps and copper pipe give a satisfactory earth path. Unless sufficient current flows during fault conditions then the protection will not operate. Whether electrically connecting sink to pipework makes a difference depends upon a number of points, but bonding gives an equal potential across the two not guaranteed earth for a fault current.
It's a bit like why BT have banned prunning saws being taken up poles by climbers to clear Ivy.
One bloke managed to saw through his belt harness......
One bloke managed to saw through his belt harness......
plugwash said:
It's not true, although the rules have changed. They have to use a full climbing hardness, and they have a fall arrestor coil. They are not allowed to run drop wire across a road on their own - there have been cases where a car catching a cable has pulled the engineer off the poll.
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