Ecomax 835 Wiring

[UnhappyCoventry]

Hi
My engineer (fully qualified), has repaired my Vaillant Ecomax 835 (7 years old)
This required a 3rd PCB

He now wants me to pay for the 2 PCB's he has had to buy

It seems the issue was the neutral wire coming from the supply
This seems to have caused a short or blown the PCB
problem was established when he called Vaillant directly who advised him to check electrical supply

I am not happy, that at £ 165 each i have to pay for these 2 PCB's

My issue is this
Why would PCB's need replacing for such a simple fault

Please advise what i can do

I feel that the design or manufacturer of these should have a fail safe / fuse that would prevent such a simple and common failure

Is the engineer at fault for not diagnosing as well

Why should i pay...

Also, it is likely that the resistor, varistor or component that has tripped or blown due to the neutral wire being loose , is only pennies in cost

I have the 2 PCB boards and would like to know if Vaillant will re-imburse me

It is likely you can easily be repaired and resold.. These PCB's are still very popular

 

[bengasman]

You have very little chance of repairing the boards, and even if you could, it is rather questionable if it is legal or not, and I doubt you could find someone who would want to buy them from you.

Vaillant will not reimburse you, end of.

Impossible to say to what degree your RGI is responsible for the 2 failed boards. His job is to repair your boiler which includes possibly a basic check of the incoming 230V. By default, his job is NOT to verify that your electrical installation is up to spec, it is your responsibility to make sure it is safe and working properly.

The best you can do is try to get to an amicable solution; if this one would go to court, the only winners would be the lawyers.

 

[D_Hailsham]

It seems the issue was the neutral wire coming from the supply
This seems to have caused a short or blown the PCB
problem was established when he called Vaillant directly who advised him to check electrical supply

Fault finding has two parts:

1. Finding out what has happened;
2. Finding out why it has happened.

The "qualified engineer" did the first, but couldn't be bothered about doing the second - until Vaillant told him to!

I would refuse to pay for the two damaged boards; it's not your fault they were damaged.

I doubt if he will take you to court (Small Claims) as he would be made to look stupid.

 

[bengasman]

1. Finding out what has happened;
2. Finding out why it has happened.

The "qualified engineer" did the first, but couldn't be bothered about doing the second - until Vaillant told him to!

I would refuse to pay for the two damaged boards; it's not your fault they were damaged.

I doubt if he will take you to court (Small Claims) as he would be made to look stupid.

Another typical post from a google-hero who has never worked in the trade.

If the "job-spec" was: "Repair my boiler”, the onus is on the home owner to prove in court that the bill is unreasonable. As the RGI can under no circumstances be blamed for a fault in the electrical system of the house, it is rather doubtful that the court would rule that he has to pay for the 2 boards.

Identifying/repairing repairing faults in the electrical system is a job for a registered electrician, NOT for a RGI.
If this would end up in court, the op could well find himself liable for failing to ensure the RGI's safety by letting him work in an environment with unsafe electricity.

There are many arguable aspects to this case, and it would be won by the guy who is best at arguing a case, not by legislative issues as such. In other words: best to avoid going to court, which is not done by simply refusing to pay.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Identifying/repairing repairing faults in the electrical system is a job for a registered electrician, NOT for a RGI.

In that case an RGI should not work on the electrical/electronics side of a boiler at all, if he is not a qualified electrician.

Why did the engineer check the electrics after Vaillant suggested it? Surely, if he was not qualified, he should have left it to a qualified electrician?

Why did he wait until two boards had been fried before seeking advice from Vaillant?

What's the betting the fault was nothing more than a slightly loose screw where the supply wires connected to the boiler? Its not unknown for 50Hz mains to slowly loosen screws.

 

[bengasman]

Identifying/repairing repairing faults in the electrical system is a job for a registered electrician, NOT for a RGI.

In that case an RGI should not work on the electrical/electronics side of a boiler at all, if he is not a qualified electrician.

There is a distinct difference between being responsible for a problem, and being capable of solving it once you have been made aware of it. Clearly not something you as an amateur are aware of in detail. Unlike gas, where you have to be registered to work on it for gain, you can legally work on electricity to a certain degree without registration.

It looks like he checked with V, because he (rightly) expected an electrically safe environment. By default, I don't check the electrical safety of a house any more than I inspect the stairs to see if they are safe to climb; we aren't expected to.

Dear mr Hailsham, don't worry if this is all confusing to you, it is hard to understand for a householder.

 

[simond]

I would refuse to pay for the two damaged boards; it's not your fault they were damaged.

I doubt if he will take you to court (Small Claims) as he would be made to look stupid.

A load of nonsense. Clearly from someone who does not repair customer boilers.

Neutral faults do not just appear, something has to happen to cause them. More often than not, on a Vaillant combi, the DIYer customer fits a new room stat and connects the neutral directly to a live switch.

This is quite likely to blow the PCB.

They then call out a boiler repairer and say the boiler stopped working. Unless they tell the repairer they have been @rsing around with the wiring, the Gas Safe man has to assume the fault is amongst the ones that can legitimately occur without intentional interference.



Depending on the exact circumstances of the case, you might be able to reasonably argue that one PCB shouldn't have been charged for. But this is only if you, or a third party, were not in any way responsible for the neutral fault.

 

[Agile]

As usual the OP has not given us information to come to any conclusion!

Questions to the OP:-

What was the itemised bill showing?

What EXACTLY was the neutral fault?

How many PCBs were damaged while the RGI was faultfinding.

What damage has it done to the PCB?

Can you see a damaged component?

Can you photo it and post it here or email it to me?

Failing that can I come and look at it? ( Which area of Cov? Foleshill Tilehill etc? )

Tony



PS To the engineers on here. I do usually check the live neutral and earth connections to the boiler on arrival, partly for fault finding and partly for my safety.

Until I know the MO of the fault in this case, I will reserve judgement on the degree to which the RGI's apparent failure to check this may have contributed to the repeated damaging of the PCB.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Identifying/repairing repairing faults in the electrical system is a job for a registered electrician, NOT for a RGI.

In that case an RGI should not work on the electrical/electronics side of a boiler at all, if he is not a qualified electrician.

There is a distinct difference between being responsible for a problem, and being capable of solving it once you have been made aware of it. Clearly not something you as an amateur are aware of in detail.

Dear mr Hailsham, don't worry if this is all confusing to you, it is hard to understand for a householder.

Oh, I understand all right; I am talking from experience in the electronics industry.

I spent several years working for a firm which supplied expensive electronic test instruments to government research laboratories. As we were the sole importer of much of the equipment, we also repaired and recalibrated the oscilloscopes, signal generators, digital voltmeters etc.

Repairs always involved finding the fault and identifying the cause. The first was often the easiest, but the second could mean leaving the equipment on test for a long time, particularly if the fault was intermittent or only occurred after a few hours working.

 

[simond]

Well, whilst that is OK in a lab where you can get on with other jobs, customers don't expect to pay for us to hang around at £XX an hour waiting for a result.

They just want us to fix it in the shortest possible time for the cheapest possible price.

 

[Bunnyman]

I am with u simond how can a neutral fault just occur ffs! And as for the google warrior screws coming loose on there own

Untitled

• Bunnyman
• 26 Mar 2010
• 499

 

[Deleted member 105431]

D Hailsham is the armchair expert who's never lifted a tool in anger. He reminds me of that loser keith Miller off eastenders.

 

[gas4you]

As usual the OP has not given us information to come to any conclusion!

Questions to the OP:-

What was the itemised bill showing?

What EXACTLY was the neutral fault?

How many PCBs were damaged while the RGI was faultfinding.

What damage has it done to the PCB?

Can you see a damaged component?

Can you photo it and post it here or email it to me?

Failing that can I come and look at it? ( Which area of Cov? Foleshill Tilehill etc? )

Tony



PS To the engineers on here. I do usually check the live neutral and earth connections to the boiler on arrival, partly for fault finding and partly for my safety.

Until I know the MO of the fault in this case, I will reserve judgement on the degree to which the RGI's apparent failure to check this may have contributed to the repeated damaging of the PCB.

I think most of these questions have been covered in the OP

 

[Agile]

Give me the answers to each question then Dave!

 

[bengasman]

...I spent several years working for a firm which supplied expensive electronic test instruments to government research laboratories....

Government, now why am I not surprised?
If we go over budget, we just get more taxpayer money. If we go over time, that's business as usual. As long as it looks good on paper, we blame the rest on someone else. If it bears no relation to the real world, who cares; we've got the contract for the time being.
No wonder your posts are always based on pure theory, you've never done any real work.