Ecomax 835 Wiring

[UnhappyCoventry]

Well
My blog seems to have raised some questions

No i did not mess about with the board or the electrics

If i were repairing a boiler, i feel i would undertake the basics, which i am sure would include the live , neutral and earth from the supply

All your comments are appreciated, although the dicussions seem to go off on a tangent and sometimes get slightly personal
No need

Some say i should pay, some say i should not

PCBs are repairable, and at these costs, so they should be
Typically here in the UK we will just replace, else where , it may not be practical or affordable to just do so


My limited experience of boilers has already lead to believe there are lots of people to gain from boiler breakdowns..

Homeowners, ofen fuelled by the drive to get hot water and heat back on, will pay the asking price..

The amount of websites and outlets bear testament to this

I will pay him
His intentions were honest, his methods not honed
A costly lesson for me

I thank you all

Unhappycoventry

 

[UnhappyCoventry]

Well
My blog seems to have raised some questions

No i did not mess about with the board or the electrics

If i were repairing a boiler, i feel i would undertake the basics, which i am sure would include the live , neutral and earth from the supply

All your comments are appreciated, although the dicussions seem to go off on a tangent and sometimes get slightly personal
No need

Some say i should pay, some say i should not

PCBs are repairable, and at these costs, so they should be
Typically here in the UK we will just replace, else where , it may not be practical or affordable to just do so


My limited experience of boilers has already lead to believe there are lots of people to gain from boiler breakdowns..

Homeowners, ofen fuelled by the drive to get hot water and heat back on, will pay the asking price..

The amount of websites and outlets bear testament to this

I will pay him
His intentions were honest, his methods not honed
A costly lesson for me

I thank you all

Unhappycoventry

 

[bengasman]

PCBs are repairable, and at these costs, so they should be

A pcb can be repaired, but......
If I repair your pcb in stead of replacing it ( to save you money ) I am liable for any problems. That means I increase my risk, and you are the only one profiting from that. If I replace the pcb, the supplier is liable.
Repairing does not look very attractive to the RGI.

 

[bengasman]

No i did not mess about with the board or the electrics

But you did not maintain the electrics either, resulting in a failing electrical supply. In all likelihood, you did not have a periodic inspection done when it was due.

 

[D_Hailsham]

...I spent several years working for a firm which supplied expensive electronic test instruments to government research laboratories....

Government, now why am I not surprised?
If we go over budget, we just get more taxpayer money. If we go over time, that's business as usual. As long as it looks good on paper, we blame the rest on someone else. If it bears no relation to the real world, who cares; we've got the contract for the time being.

But when your clients are involved in research on nuclear energy generation and atomic weapons etc you can't afford to make mistakes.

They just want us to fix it in the shortest possible time for the cheapest possible price.

I couldn't agree more. But did the OP's engineer do that? Why didn't he phone Vaillant after he had damaged one PCB?

Honeywell give very good advice in the fault-finding section of their Wiring Guide: Remember the Golden Rule when you have a problem. First of all check your wiring. Only start suspecting faulty components after you are satisfied all wiring is correct.

screws coming loose on there own.

You may not want to believe it, but they do.

D Hailsham ... never lifted a tool in anger.

Wrong.

 

[bengasman]

But when your clients are involved in research on nuclear energy generation and atomic weapons etc you can't afford to make mistakes.

When I worked as a toolmaker, I manufactured exotic stuff for oilrigs, aircraft and space craft; no room for error there either. But as that was commercial, it had to be on time and on budget even with a 100% qc.
And it always was.

"No room for error" and "Too important" are just excuses used by people who are not up to the job, too slow, too inaccurate, and too expensive.

That is why the half billion pounds spent on 8 Chinook helicopters has left the taxpayer with a bunch of second rate transporters that have been in storage for a decade because they were too dangerous to use.

 

[UnhappyCoventry]

Unhappy Still

Listen to everyone comments

It seems there are varying standards and abilities out these

Bad news for Joe Bloggs, Mr public, cause he can get anything from either scale
Even with Gorgi, Gas Safe etc, you get a varied exprience

Is this country the problem
The lacks of skills, training, experience, caused by successive Gov't

No wonder we are just a big warehouse

I tell you, when find a good workman i will pay him without question

We all need each other and we all need to make a living

Too bad we have to experience the bad, before we realise the good

Look after yourselves and each other

Regards
Unhappy....but not as much

 

[simond]

You are dead right, Mr Unhappy, the Gas Safe logo does not make a good tradesman, it just shows they were capable of passing an exam.

When doing quotes, I often ask customers who they would employ out of their office if they started their own company. Usually they struggle to think of more than 1 in 10 they would take with them. But strangely, they think all gas boiler installers do identical work...... very naive.

I think you are doing the right thing paying the tradesman, although I can appreciate it is not the best outcome.

It would help us understand if you could tell us the nature of the neutral fault that occured.

 

[Bunnyman]

Mr unhappy won't tell us the neutral fault do u know or was it self inflicted ? A boiler does not just run ok then suddenly go whoa I gonna blow a pcb coz of a neutral fault on incoming wiring what caused it !!!

Untitled

• Bunnyman
• 26 Mar 2010
• 499

 

[simond]

If you have a 3 phase supply and lose a phase, you can get an issue where the L-N voltage rises on the single phase subcircuits.

Rather unlikely in what I assume to be a domestic scenario though.

 

[Agile]

The law requires that in relation to gas appliances only Manufacturer's approved parts may be fitted!

How can any PCB repaired by Joe Bloggs ever be approved by the manufacturer?

The Manufacturer has a vested interest in selling high profit new PCBs and in any event would only approve a part that had undergone full testing by the original maker?

Tony

 

[UnhappyCoventry]

Hi All

Well the neutral fault was just a simple loose wire
The boiler is wired via a spur
The neutral in the spur most likely came loose during the repairs

My other major gripe is the PCB
Who on this planet would make a pcb that did not have a fail safe
One that would trip or blow a fuse, before a major component

The fact that there is not one, tells me what i need to know
They want it to blow
Easy £165, plus the heating engineers time

Nice if you can get it.

 

[Agile]

Unfortunately you have not answered the other questions that I placed.

The only question that you have answered is that there was a discontinuity in the neutral connection.

I am not aware of any boiler which would be damaged by that but I cannot know everything about all boilers.

So I ask those who mostly work with Vaillant boilers, in your experience does an o/c neutral connection damage the PCB?

It really would have been nice to have received the answers to all the other questions that I asked!

Tony

 

[Bunnyman]

No u would need 240v down the neutral

Untitled

• Bunnyman
• 26 Mar 2010
• 499

 

[Agile]

Thanks Bunnyman.

I have this recollection that one of the early vaillant (?) boiler had a 10 ohm (?) resistor between neutral and earth.

If it bwas this model then its conceivable that an o/c neutral could exceed the power rating of that resistor. Pity i cannot remember which model!

So the conclusion of myself and Bunnyman is that an open circuit neutral, by itself would NOT danage the CB.

What about my other questions?

Tony