Economy ten system help!

[eco10warrior]

Hi, I have an issue with an economy ten system I have in my new rented 1 bed coach house. It is driving me round the bend and I wish I could go back and take another property! The bills are ridiculous that I am really concerned as to whether I will need to just sit with the heating off completely. The electrIc bills are about £40 every week.

To cut to the chase, I must be doing something wrong for the bill to be that high and would ask for any suggestions as to what I could do. I have a total of three dimplex duoheat wall mounted storage heaters. And by the front door there is what appears to be a more simple kind of heater with thermostat controller and a setback and mode functIon, I don't know if that thermostat and other settings are just for that heater or affects Anything else - I have assumed that it doesn't as the heater is different.

The landlord and estate agent know absolutely nothing about the system which is not ideal hence why I am here to see if there are any wiser minds out there.

Each dimplex duoheat has two wall switches next to it, it appears as though one switch has a fuse in and the other doesn't, the fused swItch turns the heater on and I can change settIngs. the heater at the front door has one wall switch. I have experimented with leaving both swItches next to each heater on, or just one but the bills are still ridiculous. Please tell me what I am doing wrong.

Sorry for the long post and if you need photos I can try and upload.

Thanks,
Eco 10 warrior
[/b]

 

[mdbalson]

Each dimplex duoheat has two wall switches next to it, it appears as though one switch has a fuse in and the other doesn't, the fused swItch turns the heater on and I can change settIngs. the heater at the front door has one wall switch. I have experimented with leaving both swItches next to each heater on, or just one but the bills are still ridiculous. Please tell me what I am doing wrong.

The switch without the fuse is the off peak feed to the heater, which is live only at off peak times at night. The off peak feed is what heats up the bricks in the heater overnight, and the heat in the bricks is released through out the day. One setting switch on the heater will be for setting the temp for the off peak heating elements, another switch will be for the louver setting on the heater to adjust the louver for how much heat is released/ how quickly the heat is released in the day.

The switch with the fuse, which is on some of the heaters, is supplied with power 24/7, and is for the boost function on the heater.

 

[ericmark]

If you Click Here you will find reports and Instructions in PDF format on how the DuoHeat should be used.

Having read the installation instructions there are some configuration options which could be set wrong but the basic idea is it switches on the heat store with the low rate and it would seem there is a program wire which tells the heater what to do. It is of course important that this wire is correctly installed.

It does say they are designed for Eco 7 not Eco 10 and I am uncertain as to if the two hours that both heating elements work together with Eco 7 will work correctly with Eco 10.

I would assume you have read the instructions what we need is for you to say what it is about the instructions you don't understand. It would be clearly pointless to just repeat what the instructions say.

 

[eco10warrior]

You are right to assume I have read the instructions, and have set the heaters to average. I can only assume that I am being charged incorrectly if I just leave the unfused switch on then it won't heat by itself. I have to put both on for an hour then switch off the fused switch, the unfused switch then seems to keep the heat going

 

[ericmark]

I will admit I read the instructions and it reminded me of the law on import of peanuts which is always cited as gobbledygook.

It is not plain as to which supply is cheap rate and which is premium. I would switch as much off as I could then get my wife to switch one on at a time while I watched the meter spin to see which meter it was connected to.

That is of course where you have two meters.

But looking at the circuit diagram the control wire is connected to the premium rate supply so switching off that supply could stop the off peak working.

It does say off peak normally to left of radiator.

It seems off peak heat is called Background and boost heat is called comfort.

I hope some one who has actually installed one of these comes up soon.

 

[eco10warrior]

I actually have three meters

 

[ChrisRogers]

could you take some photos for us?

 

[stem]

I've not installed one, but helped a friend set hers up when she moved into a new flat. The 'background' setting is for the off peak storage of heat at the lower cost electrical rate and is connected to the 'off peak' electricity supply which is energised only when the cheaper tariff is available, economy 7 or 10 is fine. The heaters will store heat only when the cheap supply is available at whatever time it is available.

The 'comfort' heat is available anytime, but will be charged at the rate applicable at the time. i.e. peak rate during the daytime. Do not switch off this supply at the wall switch next to the heater though, because this operates the heater control circuits that also control the off peak heating.

If connected, the black wire is used for remote switching of the heaters. This is to provide a facility similar to central heating that allows all radiators to be controlled from one point rather than having to go around manually adjusting them individually.

For max savings use the 'background' setting for as much as possible, because the electricity it uses will be charged at about one third of the rate of the comfort setting (depending on which supplier / tariff you use) and use the 'comfort' setting as little as possible just to top up, or if possible not at all.

From the figure you quote, I think you are using the peak daytime rate. Remember to leave both wall switches permanently on otherwise the heater will not charge up on the low rate. Use the controls on the heaters, or the central controller (if fitted) to control the settings.

My friend that has this system, has a two bed, two bathroom flat. She's at home all day and is upset that her total electricity bill has just gone up to £90 per month (including cooking & lighting)

 

[eco10warrior]

//www.diynot.com/network/eco10warrior/albums/

Pictures

I have three meters, day which is 14.95p night whIch Is 7.82p and rht normal which costs the same as night.

 

[eco10warrior]

Thanks for the posts. Coincidentally I have an electrician coming round to sort something g else out soon so are there any suggested questions I should ask apart from how do I use it properly

 

[eco10warrior]

@stem thanks for response. When you say use background heat as much as possible. I am slightly confused as I thought that if both are on then it would draw peak rate leccy. I am still paying 4 Quid a day with one switch on which is nearest the heater

 

[phatboy]

Stem is right, I have installed these heaters before.

In case the manual wasnt clear... you need both switches on, as the one with the fuse provides the instant heat, but also operates the controls.

To set the background heat, you hold down the plus button on the panel until it reaches full, then continue to hold until just 1 bar flashes. This is the background level, running on the cheap rate.

Wait a few seconds until it resets to having just a few bars permanently lit. Hold down the minus button until they are all gone, or depending on the model you may get a small blue light. This will turn off the instant higher cost heat, unless the room gets very very cold (like less than 5 degrees).

I hope this helps!

 

[stem]

I am slightly confused as I thought that if both are on then it would draw peak rate leccy.

No. The 'peak' rate supply must be left on at the wall switch to operate the controls even for the 'off peak' system. No energy will be consumed by the 'peak rate' elements if the comfort setting control is 'off' on the heater itself.

The background elements only are powered when the 'off peak' tariff is on. This happens automatically, but only if the 'peak rate' supply is also 'on' to operate the controls.

Try to use the background setting (off peak) as much as possible. By that I mean if you find are not warm enough during the day, and need to use the comfort settings (peak) then turn up the background setting up so that the heater gets hotter on the 'off peak' tariff until you are warm enough without using the comfort setting the next day.

The worst thing you can do is skimp on the background setting and then use the comfort setting. Remember the comfort setting heat costs in the region of 3 times as much as background heat.

I am still paying 4 Quid a day with one switch on which is nearest the heater

And that is exactly where you are going wrong. It is clear in the instructions that ericmark has posted for you that "In order for the radiator to operate effectively both electricity supplies must be left switched ON at ALL times".
Sounds to me that you are switching off the 'peak' supply so the 'off peak' elements don't heat overnight, then you are using full rate electricity to heat your home during the day.

 

[eco10warrior]

I am slightly confused as I thought that if both are on then it would draw peak rate leccy.

No. The 'peak' rate supply must be left on at the wall switch to operate the controls even for the 'off peak' system. No energy will be consumed by the 'peak rate' elements if the comfort setting control is 'off' on the heater itself.

The background elements only are powered when the 'off peak' tariff is on. This happens automatically, but only if the 'peak rate' supply is also 'on' to operate the controls.

Try to use the background setting (off peak) as much as possible. By that I mean if you find are not warm enough during the day, and need to use the comfort settings (peak) then turn up the background setting up so that the heater gets hotter on the 'off peak' tariff until you are warm enough without using the comfort setting the next day.

The worst thing you can do is skimp on the background setting and then use the comfort setting. Remember the comfort setting heat costs in the region of 3 times as much as background heat.

I am still paying 4 Quid a day with one switch on which is nearest the heater

And that is exactly where you are going wrong. It is clear in the instructions that ericmark has posted for you that "In order for the radiator to operate effectively both electricity supplies must be left switched ON at ALL times".
Sounds to me that you are switching off the 'peak' supply so the 'off peak' elements don't heat overnight, then you are using full rate electricity to heat your home during the day.

On the one hand you are saying that I have switched off the full rate, yet you are saying that I am using full rate during the day. How is that possible if the full rate is off.

 

[stem]

You said you had been switching the wall switches on & off in an adhoc fashion in your first post. I said leave them on. As do the operating instructions.

In order for the radiator to operate effectively both electricity supplies must be left switched ON at ALL times.

On at the wall but 'comfort' setting off at the heater The reason is because:

The 'peak' rate supply must be left on at the wall switch to operate the controls even for the 'off peak' system. No energy will be consumed by the 'peak rate' elements if the comfort setting control is 'off' on the heater itself.

I believe that because you may have had the peak rate switch off during the night, so no off peak energy was stored up, then you turned the peak rate on and used it during the day.

Having said that when it's really cold you may need to top up using the 'comfort' setting but use it as little as possible.

In summary:

Use the 'background' setting to store up the heat you need (off peak rate)
Use the 'comfort setting as little as possible (peak rate = 3 x cost of low rate)