Economy7 immersion- no hot water but works on boost

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Hi all
Just signed up to DIY NOT FORUM- Can any1 out there help me please?
My Econonmy 7 system is not producing hot water in the morning. It used to for over 3 years! It is stone cold in the morning....But if i boost it for about an hour- the water is nice and hot.. Any ideas or suggestions greatly appreceiated :D [/b]
 
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Many thanks John and Nige- The heater is method 2.
If I swap the wires around (4 & 5) Could this cure the lack of overnight Eco7 heating? I am not very gemmed up in this field i'm afraid.
 
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As Nige implied, you almost certainly have two elements - one for off-peak use and one for peak use.

If you have this arrangement, then the most common fault is a corroded element. Other faults include a faulty thermostat (quite common) and a blown fuse (not common).

If you have this fault then the work required involves draining the cylinder, unless you have a dual element mounted in the top. Either way, it's a plumbing job.

If you are confident with electricity, and understand now to safely isolate the supplies to the elements, and how to test that you've isolated, then there are steps that you can take to confirm this diagnosis before proceeding to engage a tradesman.
 
Very helpful Softus

I am a plumber by trade- its the electric side that gets me- I do own a Multimeter but am still very patchy in understaing how to use the thing. I may price up for a new element. Many thanks for all your help
 
Elements are cheap - price won't be an issue.

However, you do need to diagnose this further before replacing the element. If you can use the multimeter at all then carefully take the cap off the IH element and test. If you're not confident with this, given that live terminals will be exposed, then don't do it.

1. Supply to earth should be around 240V AC.
Do this step after 1am so that your off-peak power is on.
If no voltage then you have a supply problem - check the consumer unit.

2. If the supply is OK then thermostat to element should be 240V AC.
If not then you have a faulty element.
Double check by turning the stat all the way to min temp setting.

3. If the supply and stat are both ok then the element is faulty.
You should also find 240V AC between the two poles of the element.
 
many thanks for your useful advise- I will let you know how I get on!

All good wishes

Allan

PS- are the elements to these heaters universal?
 
allan mills said:
...arethe elements to these heaters universal?
They all have the same mounting boss, but there are different lengths. The most common lengths are 11", 18" and 27", but there are also 30" and 36". You need to get the one that suits your cylinder.

If you have a side entry element, mounted near the base of the cylinder, then the length is probably 11". If you have a top entry element, then it's probably 27".

If you have a dual element (top entry only), then you need to replace the whole assembly - they're a bit more expensive but you have no choice.

BTW, get an Incaloy coated element - they last much longer. Titanium coated ones even longer.
 
Er, that's something of a red rag to a bull with some of the other guys around. I just hope chrishutt hasn't seen this topic...
 
I has this problem with my water tank in my flat.

It had 2 elements in it. One for ECO7, heating the water overnight. Second for the boost.

Rest of the flats in the block had been having problems and nightmares with different plumbs relacing the wrong bits, ordering the wrong elements, sheering the threads, cracking the tanks. So we did it ourselves.

This all depends on the type of tank you have of course and if you thermostats are intergral with the elements, or seperate.

If they are seperate:

To check the thermostat get a mutimeter, set it to 240V on AC (normally top leftish if it has a dial) and put it across the positive and negative terminals on the thermostat while everything is on. If you get nothing, then your thermostat has gone. Find out the make and model and replace. Turning all electricity to the unit off first and carfully swapping the connections over one by one so you don't make any mistakes (or draw a diagram!).

If they intergral (CORAL was my tank make):

Find out the make of tank. Ring the manufacturer, and get the manufacturers elements sent to you (replace both as if one has gone then the other is not far behind). turn off electricity to the tank. Drain out the tank using a hosepipe until the water level is below the lowest element. Make a note of the connections on the ends so when you fit the new one you get them right, and disconnect them. Your probably going to need some sort of element unscrewing tool at this point so make a note of the shape and type and buy one from a plumbers merchant (some will say use some big spanners etc etc, but believe me some boilers need a unique tool, so make sure!). Next SLOWLY unscrew the element, this ensures you don't burr or ruin the copper threads. Remove the element. NOW THIS IS THE TRICKY BIT. SLOWLY feel in the new element to the threads on the tank. If you mess this bit up you'll cross thread everything and the tank and your new element could be ruined! (As happend to TWO neighbours with their plumbers!). Then using your element tool screw in the element gently, keeping it horizoltal and in the threads, not letting it droop drown and therefore resulting it crossed threads and disaster. Do not over tighten as you can cause damage again. Reconnect the wiring to your element as per your wiring diagram you made earlier.


You should have two switches on the wall near your tank, one for the boost, one for the ECO7. They should have a light on the switch to tell you that this circuit is operating (if not then it may be a good idea to replace your current switches with this type). If the light comes on then your good to go! Refil the tank and let the hot water flow! (in the morning obviously :p )

If it doesn't come on then recheck your connections using your multimeter. Again having it on 240V and putting across the positive and negative connections on the parts you changed to see where the break in the circuit is.

Hope this helps. And my appologies if I've in any way told you how to suck eggs as you did say you were a plumber. However I would no want you to go through the pain of getting it wrong.

P.S. No I'm not a plumber or electrician. Just someone who wasn't willing to pay ££££ to people who didn't solve the problem, or changed the wrong element, or crossthreaded the elements, or cracked the tanks. One caused a flood over 3 floors of flats because he put in a cheap pattern element without an intergral thermostat and after 2 weeks of overheating it cracked the tank!!

Good luck with it.
 
Hi Louise

Many thanks for all your helpful information on this. Been playing with my multimeter a bit more so should be able to check if the thermostat is working ok. A funny thing happened this morning though- The Economy 7 heating must have kicked in overnight and we had lovely hot water this morning!
Maybe it was a lose wire or something. I will keep an eye on it for now!
Sounds like you have experienced a couple of cowboy plumbers in the past- They out there but I can assure you I am not one! :LOL:
Thanks again
 

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