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Edward Colston statue: Four cleared of criminal damage

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No need to. Read Angles post and you'll understand why I asked. He was inferring that those that that were charged with pulling down the statue were ancestors of those enslaved. There's no mention of BLM. (y)

Exactly my thoughts, the people charged were pale or pink skinned people no doubt related to slavery in some way themselves, maybe they should have jumped in the water with said statue as an apologist offering of shame of their colour, no festive pink isn't a colour!!!
 
There's a picture of the proposed plaque here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-44937719

One of the Conservative MPs was a little upset over the wording

I'm not surprised it didn't get the go ahead, the wording is wrong.

"Between 1672 and 1689 Colston's ships are believed to have transported men, women and children from Africa to the Americas."

They weren't colstons ships, they were African trading co, or Duke of Yorks ships.

Colstons own company didn't deal in the slave trade,
 
Surely if they did it, they were guilty, if the didn't they were innocent - all the judge had to do was decide the punishment if guilty.
Have you never heard of mitigating circumstances?
If the jury decided their action was justifiable, under the circumstances, then they are not guilty of the charges.
The law allows for shades of grey. We are all allowed an opinion to agree or disagree, but it doesn't change the jury's decision.
 
She has no chance of getting her hands on that cash, it was a weak argument to defend against the damage claim. There are three legal issues she faces:

Rights - assuming she had lawful authority to apply her art to the statue, her works have the embedded works of the original artist. She would have a tough time claiming it was her art that increased its value and not the publicity.
Authority - Then there is the simple fact that she did not have lawful authority, so any increase in value belongs to the owner.
Damages - A civil damages claim would exist for the recovery, repair and loss of utility. There could even be a repetitional damages claim.

Have you never heard of mitigating circumstances?
If the jury decided their action was justifiable, under the circumstances, then they are not guilty of the charges.
The law allows for shades of grey. We are all allowed an opinion to agree or disagree, but it doesn't change the jury's decision.

All sorts of shades of wrong, I'm afraid
Mitigation - does not change guilt, it affects the punishment. Sentencing guidelines cover both mitigating (reduction) and aggravating (increase) circumstances. The ultimate mitigation is absolute discharge. However, the defendant is still guilty.

I'll await the usual scholars to write up the case, before casting my view on the outcome. I had originally thought it was perverse verdict, but it would appear that the defence managed to establish sec 5 defence "Lawful Excuse", by arguing the statue's existence was hate crime. Otherwise I'd have expected the CPS to ask a higher court to intervene. None of this affects a civil damages claim.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/48/section/5
 
I suspect you'd feel the same kind of emotion if you were standing in front of a statue that was venerating the enslaving of 84,000 of your ancestors, 19,000 of whom died in the process.

Oh, so those that felt that emotion were the actual ancestors of the African slaves he traded? Got a link for that?

No need to. Read Angles post and you'll understand why I asked. He was inferring that those that that were charged with pulling down the statue were ancestors of those enslaved. There's no mention of BLM. (y)
I made no such assertion, nor any implication that the protestors of that day were "actual ancestors" of the slaves. It was a generalisation, like referring to the historical people of Britain, as 'our ancestors'.
It's easily possible that there was some tenuous bloodline from the slaves to many of the protestors.
But as you well know, or ought to know, due to the enslaving process, any attempt in identifying bloodlines of slaves is impossible because the slaves were forcibly separated from their families and no records of their origins or family ties, was attempted nor kept. Many descendants of slaves have attempted to identify their roots, but always the point of their search that results in a blind alley, is the point of their enslavement.
As you ought to know well, during the enslaving, and subsequent enslavement, families were separated, and sometimes the child was taken from the mother at birth, at the whim of the slave owner.

So you've asked for a link to records that any intelligent person would know does not exist.
So stop trying to be smart ar5e, and accept that empathy exists in many people, who feel obliged to support the victims of heinous historical acts, many of whom may have been distant ancestors, but we'll never be sure.

What we do know is that the enslavement of people 200 years ago has repercussions for people today, not only on the general level of the prejudice and discrimination demonstrated towards them, but also on a more personal level, in that the majority of the descendants of slaves do not know their origins, and it has proven impossible to find out due the barbaric actions of so called "philanthropists".

While many may wallow in the existence of buildings and organisations in Bristol, let us be aware that those buildings and organisations exist because of the bloody sacrifice of the slaves, enslaved, and worked to death against their will.
That isn't what I understand 'philanthropy' to be. To describe Colston as a philanthropist is an abomination.
 
All sorts of shades of wrong, I'm afraid
Mitigation - does not change guilt, it affects the punishment. Sentencing guidelines cover both mitigating (reduction) and aggravating (increase) circumstances. The ultimate mitigation is absolute discharge. However, the defendant is still guilty.

I'll await the usual scholars to write up the case, before casting my view on the outcome. I had originally thought it was perverse verdict, but it would appear that the defence managed to establish sec 5 defence "Lawful Excuse", by arguing the statue's existence was hate crime. Otherwise I'd have expected the CPS to ask a higher court to intervene. None of this affects a civil damages claim.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/48/section/5
Perhaps I used the wrong terminology. I should have used 'justifiable'.
If the 'mitigating circumstances' were such that the 'crime' was not considered illegal, and was considered 'justifiable', then the verdict was correctly: not guilty.

I would imagine a civil damages claim might hinge on whether the action was deemed justifiable.
As it has already been judged: justifiable, I'd hazard a guess that a civil claim might also fail.
 
No - Still wrong not 'mitigating circumstances', 'lawful excuse'. Its specific to this and some other criminal laws. if you click the link I provided you can read all about it.

I imagine in 150 years time, Jeff Bezos could be described similarly, to Colston.
 
I'm not surprised it didn't get the go ahead, the wording is wrong.

"Between 1672 and 1689 Colston's ships are believed to have transported men, women and children from Africa to the Americas."

They weren't colstons ships, they were African trading co, or Duke of Yorks ships.

Colstons own company didn't deal in the slave trade,
Your argument is tenuous to say the least.
Like it's not Boris's government , it's UK's government.
But Boris is the man in charge at the moment of relevant decisions being made. :rolleyes:
 
No - Still wrong not 'mitigating circumstances', 'lawful excuse'. Its specific to this and some other criminal laws. if you click the link I provided you can read all about it.
Justifiable = lawful excuse. You're nit-picking over minutiae.
 
Unfortunately there's no getting into some people the idea of historical context. Some people will allow themselves to be blinded by current hot political issues, and this completely warps a fair analysis of whether or not somebody 'deserves' to have a statue erected in their honour. Colston - like so many of his contemporaries - benefited from the slave trade. However as I have repeatedly said, slavery in all its forms (against black and white people) was a normality at the time and this has to be considered. An open and public debate (about an open and public monument) should consider everything behind the the erection of the statue and decide whether it should remain or go. Lawless mobs driven almost entirely by emotion, commit acts like this with the mentality of pack-like anger. People like angeleyes unfortunately support them and to me it's unfair and wrong. This isn't Iraq in 2003.
 
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A politically motivated prosecution following a politically motivated act of "vandalism", thank God our British juries are independent.

And don't forget Colston would have been handsomely compensated for his "losses" when the slave trade ended.

Blup
 
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