Electric Storage heaters

[CottageCookie]

I am looking at running 3 electric storage heaters/heaters in conjunction with my back boiler. Basically i want another way to heat my house with out having an fire.
I want the heaters to be able to keep my house at an average temperature so maybe a thermostat system?
Does anyone know of any decent makes or what not to go for and what to go for?

thankys guys

 

[big-all]

heeelllooo and welcome CottageCookie
do you have mains gas ??

 

[ericmark]

The storage heater is only really going to be worth while when you have the special supply to give you cheap power at set times of the day. Clearly the standard brick type are no good as standby.

There are versions which heat water in a very well insulated tank then pump it around as and when required. This system may be worth looking at. You could heat the water with your back boiler and when required supplement it with electric.

Heat exchanger

• ericmark
• 10 Mar 2009
• 2

That is a general plan and as you see one can fit as many hot coils as you want and gain heat from many sources and use it all to heat the same radiators.

Against the system is cost to install. It seems there are two types pressurised and non pressurised the former can work with hotter water but requires an annual test.

There is also the Willis system have to take your hat off to the Irish here.

But to basics to heat a brick to 500 degs plus and no way can you stop the heat getting out. Heat water to 100 degs and yes you can insulate and stop the heat (energy) escaping. However it's the amount of water you need to store. The brick is not just clay or concrete but it has a huge amount of iron ore in the mix making them store more energy. So it's all down to house design have you got the room for the storage cylinder?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Insulation would be a problem, but does anybody make thermal stores containing liquids which can go to more than 100°C?

Oil?

Sodium?

 

[CottageCookie]

heeelllooo and welcome CottageCookie
do you have mains gas ??

Thanks mate

No i don't, its either oil or solid fuel.

The storage heater is only really going to be worth while when you have the special supply to give you cheap power at set times of the day. Clearly the standard brick type are no good as standby.

There are versions which heat water in a very well insulated tank then pump it around as and when required. This system may be worth looking at. You could heat the water with your back boiler and when required supplement it with electric.

Heat exchanger

• ericmark
• 10 Mar 2009
• 2

That is a general plan and as you see one can fit as many hot coils as you want and gain heat from many sources and use it all to heat the same radiators.

Against the system is cost to install. It seems there are two types pressurised and non pressurised the former can work with hotter water but requires an annual test.

There is also the Willis system have to take your hat off to the Irish here.

But to basics to heat a brick to 500 degs plus and no way can you stop the heat getting out. Heat water to 100 degs and yes you can insulate and stop the heat (energy) escaping. However it's the amount of water you need to store. The brick is not just clay or concrete but it has a huge amount of iron ore in the mix making them store more energy. So it's all down to house design have you got the room for the storage cylinder?

I have looked at a similar system, Its what i plan to run in conjuction with a multifuel stove.
But i am coming into some money in 2 years time and thats when i intend to install it.
I had storage heaters in my cottage when i moved in and removed them and ran some radiators off the back boiler. but i dont have radiators down stairs.
I am looking at 4 heaters, 1 upstairs and 2 down stairs, its only a small cottage and is very well insulated.
Maybe storage heaters are a bad idea.
I've just found this product: http://www.economy-radiators.com/?gclid=CNeoo52E77ACFUcKtAodCE74Pg
What are your thoughts?

 

[OwainDIYer]

I've just found this product: http://www.economy-radiators.com/?gclid=****
What are your thoughts?

£250 for a 500w heater that will do no more or less than a £20 panel heater from Argos.

 

[CottageCookie]

I've just found this product: http://www.economy-radiators.com/?gclid=****
What are your thoughts?

£250 for a 500w heater that will do no more or less than a £20 panel heater from Argos.

what would you recommend?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thermal underwear for the next two winters, and then air-source heat pumps.

 

[ericmark]

Back to basics. Any electric heater will produce the same amount of heat as any other where a simple element is used. 500W is 500W no simple heater can make it any more.

But there are two ways which will allow you to get more. The heat pump and radiated heat heaters.

With a draughty house radiated heat heaters can be better often seen in garages always you can see the red hot elements and radiated heat does not heat air but heats items like you in the same way as the sun heats you.

However the radiated heat is hard to measure so where standard thermostats are used one can end up with the house too warm or too cold as even the colour of the thermostat will alter how it works. What is an idea is to have radiated heat at night as well as standard convected heat when since one is less active you want it a little warmer. This is easy to do, just bin all the so called energy saving bulbs and go back to tungsten which because they emit radiated heat lower the air temperature required to be within the comfort zone.

Yet I still use discharge lighting mainly as low maintenance.

The problem with most the energy saving devices they are measured with no regard to how they integrate with rest of the house. So a tumble drier which is vented may when used in the garden shed be more economic than the condensing type. But in the house where you paying to heat the air in the room where it's running it's another story. It can also cause flue gases to be drawn into the house.

I talked about this to energy saving trust and they admitted there is a problem where all the energy saving devices are tested in isolation not as an integrated part of the house.

Solid fuel is a real problem as often the combustion air is drawn from within the room not taken from outside so causes drafts and the flue temperature in order to produce the draft required to make the fire burn and ensure all the gases go safely outside is far too high for the energy to be extracted for use heating the house. Simple with a gas fire you can use fans or balanced flue and fail safe cut off should something go wrong. Not easy to extinguish a solid fuel fire if a fan assisted flue failed. It would need some battery back-up like used in the coal fired power stations to ensure the flue worked A1 even in a power cut which would mean the cost would rocket.

Because of the amount of heat going up the flue with solid fuel they are about the worst as far as economy goes. However because of fuel costs they still can be cheaper to run.

 

[CottageCookie]

Back to basics. Any electric heater will produce the same amount of heat as any other where a simple element is used. 500W is 500W no simple heater can make it any more.

But there are two ways which will allow you to get more. The heat pump and radiated heat heaters.

With a draughty house radiated heat heaters can be better often seen in garages always you can see the red hot elements and radiated heat does not heat air but heats items like you in the same way as the sun heats you.

However the radiated heat is hard to measure so where standard thermostats are used one can end up with the house too warm or too cold as even the colour of the thermostat will alter how it works. What is an idea is to have radiated heat at night as well as standard convected heat when since one is less active you want it a little warmer. This is easy to do, just bin all the so called energy saving bulbs and go back to tungsten which because they emit radiated heat lower the air temperature required to be within the comfort zone.

Yet I still use discharge lighting mainly as low maintenance.

The problem with most the energy saving devices they are measured with no regard to how they integrate with rest of the house. So a tumble drier which is vented may when used in the garden shed be more economic than the condensing type. But in the house where you paying to heat the air in the room where it's running it's another story. It can also cause flue gases to be drawn into the house.

I talked about this to energy saving trust and they admitted there is a problem where all the energy saving devices are tested in isolation not as an integrated part of the house.

Solid fuel is a real problem as often the combustion air is drawn from within the room not taken from outside so causes drafts and the flue temperature in order to produce the draft required to make the fire burn and ensure all the gases go safely outside is far too high for the energy to be extracted for use heating the house. Simple with a gas fire you can use fans or balanced flue and fail safe cut off should something go wrong. Not easy to extinguish a solid fuel fire if a fan assisted flue failed. It would need some battery back-up like used in the coal fired power stations to ensure the flue worked A1 even in a power cut which would mean the cost would rocket.

Because of the amount of heat going up the flue with solid fuel they are about the worst as far as economy goes. However because of fuel costs they still can be cheaper to run.

so... what would you recommend?

 

[bernardgreen]

If you have the space in the garden to lay the collecting pipes then a ground source heat pump is probably the best option if you are restricted to electricity as power source. Use that to heat a large thermal heat store ( large well insulated tank of water ) from which you can draw of heat as and when you need it.

The same heat pump with the right plumbing can also be used on a hot day to "move" excess heat from the house and into the heat store for future use.

The thing you need to consider is ventilation, especially if it is an old cottage. You can reduce heating costs by making the house almost air tight and draught free but the adverse affect on health then needs to be considered. Sealed houses need means to remove water vapour otherwise condensation and possibly black mould become problematic.

 

[CottageCookie]

Thanks, but i am looking for something that is going to last 2 years until i can fit my new system in.

 

[bernardgreen]

It may be long term cost effective to use an electrically heated heat store using Off peak electricity as the interim method. ( bear in mind daytime cost per unit is considerably higher with an economy tarif so cooking etc is likely to be more expensive.)

The heat store can then be used as part of the system installed in two years time. By which time you will have experience of what is needed and not just estimates of the heating requirement.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I've just found this product: http://www.economy-radiators.com/?gclid=****
What are your thoughts?

£250 for a 500w heater that will do no more or less than a £20 panel heater from Argos.

what would you recommend?

Of the two, I would recommend the £20 panel heater from Argos.

If you want storage heaters, and as it is likely to be temporary, look for second hand ones on Ebay within collection distance.

Allow for the costs of wiring them in though, as they need individual circuits back to an off-peak consumer unit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thanks, but i am looking for something that is going to last 2 years until i can fit my new system in.

It might be cheaper to borrow the money to fund the new system now than install something and depreciate the capital investment over 2 years.

And if the new system has lower running costs....