Electric Towel Rail, Notifiable in Wales?

[charliegolf]

As the title says, really. Would anyone know the answer? Ta.

CG

 

[EFLImpudence]

Only notifiable if it is within the zones of a bath/shower room - i.e. the electrics are within 600mm of a bath or shower which they probably won't be.

Here is the law - note it lists things which are NOT notifiable so everything else is.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/4/made

See 2a and definitions in 4.

 

[EFLImpudence]

2a (not b as I first wrote).

 

[charliegolf]

Thanks, I'll have a good read up on that.

Edit, the towel rail won't be outside 600mm from the sink tap, so I'll call a pro. I would feel competent to do the work, but guests will be in that en-suite, so by the book.

Thanks again

CG

 

[EFLImpudence]

Sink (basin) has nothing to do with it; only the bath or shower - and only the electrics of the towel rail; not the 'other' side.

 

[charliegolf]

OK, I looked at the link; and then at a zone diagram... They all seem to amend the safe zone with a 600mm radius around the basin tap. I will look again, Ta.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Nearly every zone diagram on the web is wrong.

This is correct:
https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:bathroom_zones

 

[charliegolf]

Excellent, thanks for the help.

 

[ericmark]

Only notifiable if it is within the zones of a bath/shower room - i.e. the electrics are within 600mm of a bath or shower which they probably won't be.

Here is the law - note it lists things which are NOT notifiable so everything else is.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/schedule/4/made

See 2a and definitions in 4.

Are you sure this applies to Wales? I am reasonably sure electrical work in a kitchen and in the garden are still considered as special areas in Wales?

Additional notes
Tables 1 and 2 above give the general rules for determining whether or not electrical installation work is notifiable. The rules are based on the risk of fire and injury and what is practicable. The following notes provide additional guidance and specific examples:
a. Notifiable jobs include new circuits back to the consumer unit, and extensions to circuits in kitchens and special locations (bathrooms, etc) and associated with special installations (garden lighting and power installations, etc).
b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location or associated with a special installation.
c. Consumer unit replacements are, however, notifiable.
d. In large bathrooms, the location containing a bath or shower is defined by the walls of the bathroom.
e. Conservatories and attached garages are not special locations. Work in them is therefore not notifiable unless it involves the installation of a new circuit or the extension of a circuit in a kitchen or special location or associated with a special installation.
f. Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring.

It would seem your bathroom plan is wrong for Wales. It says
"d. In large bathrooms, the location containing a bath or shower is defined by the walls of the bathroom." the link is for BS 7671 not for Welsh law.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes certain.

The definitions of a special location are different in BS 7671.

The definition in BR Schedule 4 section 4 applies.


Look at the actual law in my link; not what someone has needlessly written in an unnecessary approved document.

 

[ericmark]

Yes certain.

The definitions of a special location are different in BS 7671.

The definition in BR Schedule 4 section 4 applies.


Look at the actual law in my link; not what someone has needlessly written in an unnecessary approved document.

I looked for Welsh law, could not find anything which says the law you have linked to is Welsh, as far as I am aware in Wales the law was not altered from the original, the original was written before we were writing our own laws, but the amendment was after so the amendment did not apply to Wales.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Exactly. Wales still uses what was written in 2005 and 2010 - Schedule 4; not the 2013 amendments for England.

 

[denso13]

I looked for Welsh law, could not find anything which says the law you have linked to is Welsh

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2214/pdfs/uksiem_20102214_en.pdf, section 5.1

 

[ericmark]

It does say the intention was to consolidate the regulations, and it seems up to 2010 England and Wales were singing from the same song sheet, however I also know some of the changes made in England were not extended to Wales.

The changes to the Assembly's powers were commenced on 4 May 2007, after the election. Following a referendum on 3 March 2011, the Welsh Assembly gained direct law making powers, without the need to consult Westminster.

And I seem to remember the proposed changes to Part P laws were not passed until after 3 March 2011 even though drafted in 2010, so third party inspectors, and the removal of kitchens and gardens from being a special location did not happen in Wales, in real terms in owner occupied premises no one really worries Llanymynech has been in the news in last few days as two pubs close and one pub reopens, it did have a pub with two bars in England and one in Wales but now closed. But for electricians working on the boarder it has been a problem when even the occupants get it wrong, had that in Saltney.

Only with guests and rented homes does the different laws cause a problem, as with owner occupier they ignore then anyway. However we are told

but guests will be in that en-suite,

so it could cause problems if not complying with Welsh law.

I really do think it is daft, however with Covid 19 I have been able to find on line all the English laws, but the Welsh laws seem few and far between, and we had to trust the BBC was relaying the correct information, and the building regulations laws are the same, I have found a memorandum on the English landlord rules saying EICR inspectors should have at least 10 years experience in the trade, and there is a list of qualifications going to be required for any electrician who is not a scheme member, but when the law came was that was not included? So memorandums are really useless.