deadshort";p="3358094 said:
Well, its' disputed. I am obviously in the rightBut seriously, no, I don't think I owe them the amount they are asking for and they havent finished the work yet. It has nothing to do with electrical work and they are using it to withhold the cert....
I cant apparently insure my house adequately without it so it has a rather sinister twist. I think I'm just stunned a scheme like this doesn't have failsafes like "copies to everyone".
Electrical Safety Certificate witheld
- Thread starter Elkin
- Start date
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I do see this. The electrician has not done anything wrong and fulfilled all obligations.
I have since spoken to Select and they say this is a very "gray" area that does crop up. They're saying it might be down tot he local authority as to what they might accept in terms of another electrician testing the condition with periodic test. Not guaranteed way forward though.
I'm incredulous this can happen when the process is intend to address building standards and safety for the occupier and yet its seems to have worked against me int his case.
Yes, I totally accept this.
I 'm afraid they have become completely unresponsive though and I suspect they won't be returning to complete works or have dialogue based on communications up to now.
You'll need to take my word for it that I'm in the right I know, but I'm just trying to find other options because I'm genuinely in a position that puts my home at risk as far as I can tell.
I guess that they probably have a different view. If they believe that you owe them money in relation to the job as a whole (which presumably includes the electrical work, which they may well already have paid for), then they may feel that they are justified in holding documents 'to ransom' until the dispute is resolved and they have been paid whatever that resolution dictates (don't forget that they may well believe that they are "obviously in the right", too!).Well, its' disputed. I am in obviously in the right
Again, I suppose there will be differing views about this. 'Copies to everyone' would mean that you would get your certificate directly from the electrician even if you did not pay a penny to the builder (who was paying the electrician).
I'm not questioning your belief that you are in the right (I obviously haven't got a clue) - merely pointing out that different players in a situation like this will have different viewpoints.
Kind Regards, John
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The contract is disappointingly unspecific about "completion" or "certificates".
Lawyers letters have been exchanged along these lines already.
You've helped me focus my question then along the lines of the possibility of having the electrics tested by another electrician. Is that something that CAN happen?! the process reads like only an electrician can certify their own work. If they have and I cant get that certificate then how do I reassure the council its done to standards?
Although, as you've said, it's not certain what the LA will/would accept, I would have thought that an insurer would be happy with an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report - what used to be a PIR) undertaken by a different electrician, although that would obviously cost you money.
Even as far as the LA are concerned, if the situation doesn't change, ultimately they will have no choice other than either to inspect and test themselves (and few LA's have the ability/expertise to do that) or rely upon an inspection by some 'other' electrician. It's not a unique situation - for example, electricians have been known to 'disappear' before a job is completed or, at least, before they have issued any paperwork.
Kind Regards, John
JohnW2 - thank you. Some wise words. I see what you mean about electricians walking off site. The Select rep suggested its not unique too but really pointed me back to LA.
You are all helping me see both sides of this of this predicament. Part of that is seeing what everyone's views are here. Much appreciated!!
You are all helping me see both sides of this of this predicament. Part of that is seeing what everyone's views are here. Much appreciated!!
You're welcome. It sounds as if you greatest immediate concern relates to the insurance. If you have not done so already, it might be work asking the insurers what they would accept - i.e. if they would accept an EICR.
Kind Regards, John
But it would be hard to disqualify if court procedures ensued, as the work agreed required inspection, test and certs for it to be completed. And you have evidence that an application for this work was made to the council.
There has to be a means of having your installation commissioned, I would approach the building officer and inform them about your issue and ask what would be an acceptable route forward?
Indeed. As you say, there has to be a solution. As I wrote yesterday ...
... they may not like it but, AFAICS, the LA would ultimately have no option other than to accept of one those two approaches. Indeed, since the OP's dispute is with the builder, I would imagine that the same issue probably arises in relation to things other than the electrical work, so that will also probably have to be discussed with the BCO.
Kind Regards, John
What does Scottish law actually say about standards, compliance etc for electrical work in this scenario?
If the builder is obliged to provide proof of compliance to the local authority within x days of doing the work, I doubt that a civil dispute between him and his client exempts him from the law.
If the builder is obliged to provide proof of compliance to the local authority within x days of doing the work, I doubt that a civil dispute between him and his client exempts him from the law.
Could the OP employ the sub-electrician himself and get the original designer/installer to issues a new cert for work he has correctly done - now paid for separately (a new contract) ?
If the electrician fears damaging his relationship then he clearly fears that the builder is indeed withholding the certificate in furtherance of his dispute.
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