Electrical Safety Certificate witheld

[Elkin]

I've just had an extension built by a building firm. We've had a disagreement about an aspect of the build (unrelated to electricals) and they are now withholding the electrical safety certificate. The electrical work as carried out by a subcontractor and he's completed his testing and met his contractual obligations by handing it to the building company.

I am now applying for completion to the council but can't because of the absence of this certificate.

Disappointingly, I don't see resolution to our predicament with the building firm and the build is finished.

The electrician gets a lot of work from the builder so he won't give me a copy for fear of their reaction. I kind of understand that.

Any idea what options I might have?

 

[ericmark]

I realise Scottish law is different to Welsh law but my understanding is as well as giving the certificate to the client which clearly the electrician has done he had to register the certificate through his scheme provider to the local authority.

So although there may be a problem selling the house there should not be a problem with the local authority as they have already been told the work is compliant.

It would seem strange to have to under the freedom of information act have to ask the local authority for the information to then hand it straight back to them.

Have the local authority said they need the certificate or was it just you who assumed they required it.

 

[Adam_151]

Which competant person scheme is he registered with? NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA, etc

 

[Elkin]

Yes, I think it is different here.

My understanding of this is that he provides the certificate to the "verifier" who is the builder in this case. The builder is then supposed to apply for completion enclosing relevant building certificates - like this - on my behalf.

I am now having to take on that task.

The council have advised me that I need to enclose it with my application for completion. They seem to be holding my build to ransom on the basis of this one item which seems crazy.

I'd have thought if the certificate is relevant to the property a copy should go to direct tot he authority with the warrant reference number, as you suggest. Doesn't seem to work like that here.

Electrician is a member of Select.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Any idea what options I might have?

Take the electrician to court claiming as much as you can under the threshold for a "small claim".

Your argument is that the electrical work is substandard, non-compliant (and possibly - I don't know what Scottish law says - illegal). The proof of this is his inability to provide a certificate because the work is dodgy.

Of course none of that is (one hopes) true, and that issue will never become a real one tested in court, but it will focus the guys mind on the fact that he has not behaved properly.

 

[RF Lighting]

Surely the issue here is with the builder?

The electrician has issued the certificate to his client as he is required to do.

If I worked for another firm as a subcontractor, wether it be another electrical contractor, a plumber, or a builder I would issue the certificate to them as that is who has employed me, and their details would be entered into the customer details box on the certificate.

I would expect the householder to persue the builder for the certificate, not me. Just like if I didn't get paid, I'd persue the builder for my money, not the homeowner.

 

[skotl]

Any idea what options I might have?

Take the electrician to court claiming as much as you can under the threshold for a "small claim".

Your argument is that the electrical work is substandard, non-compliant (and possibly - I don't know what Scottish law says - illegal). The proof of this is his inability to provide a certificate because the work is dodgy.

Of course none of that is (one hopes) true, and that issue will never become a real one tested in court, but it will focus the guys mind on the fact that he has not behaved properly.

That's not going to work because the OP has no commercial relationship with the electrician. If he wanted to go this route then his only recourse is to sue the builder.
Which takes us back to the OP...

 

[ericmark]

Yes I also considered who has a contract with whom. The regulations say the certificates must be given to the client not the occupier and this makes sense with a rented property you don't tell the occupier of any problems you tell the client.

So the electrician has done it correct.

Although the electrician is duty bound to complete and supply the certificates I see no law or regulation to say these should be subsequently passed on to the occupier.

If the work undertaken does not require notification then one is really stumped. However if it does require notification then there are two other bodies who could help.

The electrician will have needed to inform his scheme operator "Select" and in turn the scheme operator would need to inform the local council.

However from what I understand the installation certificate is not send to the scheme provider all the electrician does is on line say it complies. So although the council should be informed it complies they will not know the details.

So the council should be able to issue a completion certificate without viewing the installation certificate as they should already have a compliance certificate on file or it does not require a compliance certificate for that work in which case they should still issue a completion certificate.

At least that is how it should work in Wales and I would expect similar in Scotland.

 

[bernardgreen]

Could the electrician issue a copy certificate for the owner to include in the package of documents needed for the local authority to issue the completion certificate ?

 

[RF Lighting]

He could if he wants, but he doesn't have to.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The electrician seems to have a much stronger relationship with the builder, than with the client.

I would have a prod at SELECT and ask for their help.

 

[Blackhand]

The electrician seems to have a much stronger relationship with the builder, than with the client.

I would have a prod at SELECT and ask for their help.

The Builder is the Electricians client whom he has quite rightly given the certs too. He has also quite rightly stayed well out of any dispute between the builder and the builders customer.

 

[JohnW2]

I would have a prod at SELECT and ask for their help.

No harm in trying - but, as skotl, eric and Blackhand have said, it would seem that the electrician has probably done everything correctly, giving the paperwork to the person (the builder) who employed/contracted him to do the work - so I'm not sure that there will be much that SELECT can do about it.

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I assume there was a contractual agreement between builder and home-owner?
I would expect that agreement included completion and certification of the electrical work, if so the builder is in-breach of his contract.
I would write to the builder informing of this and request the certificate, also inform the builder if they fail to to issue you with this certificate you will take court procedure against him for the value of money it would cost for you to have the electrical installation inspected, tested and certificated by another electrician.
Also include in your claim any legal fees that will be incurred.
This letter should be in the form of a letter before action.
You may then find that is enough for the builder to then handover the certs.

 

[deadshort]

I've just had an extension built by a building firm. We've had a disagreement about an aspect of the build (unrelated to electricals) and they are now withholding the electrical safety certificate. The electrical work as carried out by a subcontractor and he's completed his testing and met his contractual obligations by handing it to the building company.

I am now applying for completion to the council but can't because of the absence of this certificate.

Disappointingly, I don't see resolution to our predicament with the building firm and the build is finished.

The electrician gets a lot of work from the builder so he won't give me a copy for fear of their reaction. I kind of understand that.

Any idea what options I might have?

If it's money you owe then you would be better off paying him.

DS