Electricity Supplier ?

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Put it this way, then. When 'everyone' has an electric car, do you think it will still be as cheap as it is now to charge them?
I don't really understand what point you're trying to make. Are you perhaps suggesting that 'smart' meters (in conjunction with 'smart' EV chargers) may come to be used for 'taxing' EV charging? If so, I suppose that is one possibility.

Users of EVs in the UK are obviously currently in a 'honeymoon' period, since they are buying energy for their vehicles without paying the substantial amount of fuel excise duty which everyone else pays for the petrol or diesel.

That will obviously have to change. That may be by somehow increasing the cost of EV charging (perhaps as suggested above) or (possibly more likely) by some sort of 'usage charge/tax' for road vehicles, since the government obviously could not afford to totally lose the very substantial income that are used to having from the excise duty.

Kind Regards, John
 
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The Government don't do technical, as is so obvious from the many mistakes all partys have made over the years.
Very true, but I've never really understood. I know a good few people who are 'technical' (in some cases highly qualified/experienced), in a wide range of disciplines, who are either employed by or contracted to government to 'advise', so I can but assume that the politicians tend to ignore that advice (which makes one wonder why they bother to employ/pay the 'advisors' in the first place :) )

Kind Regards, John
 
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There are plenty of reasons not to accept so called smart meters. The whole rollout has been based on lies. They do not save you money and they are not free. The cost of them are paid by everyone through higher bills. You even have to buy your own batteries for the indoor unit. The first generation did not allow you to change suppliers and remain smart so now are being replaced at even more cost to everyone. The government wants them so they can have fluid pricing. Price goes up at dinner cooking time and becomes astronomical on Christmas Day. It is already beginning to happen in Australia so I hear.
My smart electric meter very definitely does save me money.
 
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My smart electric meter very definitely does save me money.
That's obviously what the government would like to think, and you're far from alone in saying that such has been your experience. However, I'm rather confused, and perhaps you can help me to understand.....

If you have experienced a saving in electricity cost, you obviously must have reduced some aspects of your electricity usage. What is it that (with a 'smart' meter) you now know about the the fact that reducing your electricity usage will reduce your electricity bills that you didn't know and/or understand before you had a smart meter?

Kind Regards, John
 
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That's obviously what the government would like to think, and you're far from alone in saying that such has been your experience. However, I'm rather confused, and perhaps you can help me to understand.....

If you have experienced a saving in electricity cost, you obviously must have reduced some aspects of your electricity usage. What is it that (with a 'smart' meter) you now know about the the fact that reducing your electricity usage will reduce your electricity bills that you didn't know and/or understand before you had a smart meter?

Kind Regards, John
I've always been wary of smart meters, was quite resistant to getting one, and have been surprised by the amount of money it has been part of saving me.

So my smart electricity meter enables me to automatically charge the car, and to set on the dishwasher etc when the (changes every half hour) incoming price rate is low, and to then discharge the car to the house to cover the house load when the incoming rate is higher, and to discharge to the grid when the outgoing rate is very high. It's not that I use less electricity, it's that the smart meter enables me to buy lower and sell higher. I think a lot of people with batteries, particularly if coupled with solar, get benefit from variable rates, as do a lot of people with EV's.

I also suspect that many more people have, because of the ease, immediacy and portability of the ihd, discovered which appliances are using a lot of power and done something about it, as I did in the case of our freezer.
We do find that it's very little effort to shift loads to times when the rates are lower, so we pay less, and also help to balance the grid.
So, all in all, it's been a success for us.
However, if I had no reason to use TOU (time of use) rates I'd still have a pre smart meter - apart from anything else, it seems a waste of resources to replace something that still works fine.
 
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That's obviously what the government would like to think, and you're far from alone in saying that such has been your experience.

By themselves they do not/cannot save the customer anything, the customer needs to put effort in to use the meter to work out what things are consuming power and take steps to minimise their consumption. The same could as easily be done using almost any consumption monitor, the Smart meters just make it so much easier for most people.
 
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If you refuse to have a smart meter, your only options are a single rate tarriff or one of the legacy dual-rate tarrifs.

If you have a smart meter, it opens up more tarrif options, whether these are benefitcial depends on your specific useage pattern.
 
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So my smart electricity meter enables me to automatically charge the car, and to set on the dishwasher etc when the (changes every half hour) incoming price rate is low, and to then discharge the car to the house to cover the house load when the incoming rate is higher, and to discharge to the grid when the outgoing rate is very high. It's not that I use less electricity, it's that the smart meter enables me to buy lower and sell higher. I think a lot of people with batteries, particularly if coupled with solar, get benefit from variable rates, as do a lot of people with EV's. .... We do find that it's very little effort to shift loads to times when the rates are lower, so we pay less, and also help to balance the grid.
Ah, I think that puts you appreciably ahead of most of the rest of the field at present, since my understanding (perhaps wrong!) is that dynamic TOU tariffs such as you obviously have are currently pretty rare.
However, if I had no reason to use TOU (time of use) rates I'd still have a pre smart meter - apart from anything else, it seems a waste of resources to replace something that still works fine.
That is obviously the situation I was thinking/talking about and, as above (albeit, again, I might be wrong) a situation which I think probably currently applies to the great majority of people - who, as I implied, can therefore only reduce their electricity bulls by using less electricity.

However, I also wonder to what extent the situation with TOU tariffs will prove to be largely a relatively brief 'honeymoon' period, even if/when a high proportion of consumers have such tariffs. From the point-of-view of generators and distributors of electricity, hence also suppliers, these tariffs are all about trying to flatten out the circadian variation in electricity demand, since the ideal for them would be for demand to be spread evenly over the 24 hours of a day - so, at present, electricity is at its cheapest at times of day when demand is lowest.

If/when the current attractions of these tariffs result in consumers being 're-educated' as regards their pattern of electricity use to the extent that the demand does become fairly constant throughout the 24 hours of a day, then there will be little/no reason for price to vary during the day - so, if these tariffs have the desired effect they might thereby largely self-destroy the need for them!

At a more 'philosophical' level, these tariffs can also be said to be fairly discriminatory, since they favour those whose domestic and employment situations, and their ('intellectual') ability to optimally 'manage' their electricity usage, allows them to make what may be quite substantial changes to the way they run their lives. Delaying an evening meal until late at night may not be practical for a lot of people and, as for being 'encouraged' (by cost saving) to let things like washing machines, dishwashers and (particularly) tumble dryers run whilst they are asleep has adverse 'safety' implications.

Kind Regards, John
 
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If you refuse to have a smart meter, your only options are a single rate tarriff or one of the legacy dual-rate tarrifs.
Ok, so everything is dependent on the rates charged.
Are they charging less for having a smart meter or more for not having one?

If you have a smart meter, it opens up more tarrif options, whether these are benefitcial depends on your specific useage pattern.
Do you think the purpose of the smart meter and those extra tariffs is to make it cheaper or dearer in the long run for the customer (without changing usage habits)?
 
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On Have I got News For You last night, James May raised an interesting point.

The 'cap' has been raised and energy companies are making huge unexpected profits such that some are calling for a 'windfall tax'.

He asked; why then is the cap not reduced so that the companies reduce their prices?

It was quickly overlooked.
 
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However, I also wonder to what extent the situation with TOU tariffs will prove to be largely a relatively brief 'honeymoon' period, even if/when a high proportion of consumers have such tariffs. From the point-of-view of generators and distributors of electricity, hence also suppliers, these tariffs are all about trying to flatten out the circadian variation in electricity demand, since the ideal for them would be for demand to be spread evenly over the 24 hours of a day - so, at present, electricity is at its cheapest at times of day when demand is lowest.

I would suggest it is a trial for what the future holds for almost everyone and I would call it perfectly fair to do that. We cannot just keep on creating generation and distribution, expanding them to meet the maximum demand.

Eventually, the choice will be between paying well over the odds for retaining a none Smart meter and having one, but at a slightly lower fixed rate, then a Smart where the rate is variable.
 
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He asked; why then is the cap not reduced so that the companies reduce their prices?
Because the energy industry in the UK is not a vertically integrated monolith. Some parts of the industry have made record profits out of the recent situation, others have been driven to collapse as they have been forced to sell energy below cost.
 
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Because the energy industry in the UK is not a vertically integrated monolith. Some parts of the industry have made record profits out of the recent situation, others have been driven to collapse as they have been forced to sell energy below cost.
Only the ones that offered unsustainable rates have gone bust - leaving others to pay for there irresponsibility.

Why cannot the ones with record profits reduce their prices?


Was EDF in France not limited to a 4% increase rather than just charge the going rate because they could?
 

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