Electricity supply responsiblity

[dazeruk]

I had a letter from my electricity supply company that due to the age of my electricity meter they needed to come and replace it.

The guy arrived but said that due to the type of supply coming into my flat (fused nuetral) that this would would need to be rectified before they could replace the meter. He said this work needed to done by the Distribution Network Operator and not by the supply company and that the situation was regarded as potentially dangerous.

I today had a guy from the DNO (UK Power Networks) come round (a month after phoning them and telling them about the fused neutral situation) and he says that they aren't responsible for this problem. Apparently my supply comes from a distribution block (submain possibly, he used terms I didn't understand) situated in the flat below. He said the DNO is only responsible up to that point and that I will need to pay someone to replace the equipment from that point up to the meter.

I've spoken to a friend who used to work as an electrician and he says that no electrician would do that work as it would involve breaking seals on the meter which they are not allowed to do. He said unless things have radically changed then the DNO is responsible for all equipment up to the meter. Also as the work would involve distrupting someone elses supply then it should be done by the network company.

Does anyone know what the regulations that relate this situation are and how I can someone to actually come and rectify the situation?

 

[Robin0577]

Flats can be extremely tricky in this regard and it's not uncommon to require the cooperation/coordination of several parties.

Typically (you'll need to find out if this is correct in your case, there are other ways)....

The DNO is responsible for the main supply into the building and they'll have to isolate that before any work is done.

The freeholder or freehold management company/committee for the building is responsible for the internal distribution from the main supply point to the individual flats. He/She/They have to appoint a contractor to work on that.*

The electricity supplier or meter operator for each individual flat is then responsible for disconnecting the meters from the old distribution system and reconnecting them to the new one. If there are several flats and they all use different suppliers it could be a nightmare to organise.

*If it's a simple shared freehold with you and your neighbour as the freeholders then that should be quite simple, if there's a management company or worse still a solicitor in the way.....

 

[dazeruk]

The flats are self-contained, there are no shared areas.

The following link shows what they look like

http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/documents/warner-residential-advice-note.pdf

A row of terraced houses, with one flat downstairs and one upstairs. Flats were built like this in about 1900 and aren't converted houses.

Although there is a freehold management company, they don't actually do any maintenace work.

I assume there would only need to be co-ordination between me and downstairs.

 

[Robin0577]

Yes, it should be straightforward if it's just 2 of you.

Some years back, I think it was before there was any choice of electricity supplier, I lived in a 1st floor maisonette with a similar issue. I simply made arrangements with the neighbour, put in new wiring alongside the old and then called London Electricity (as was) to disconnect the old and connect the new.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Surely if the problem is before the meter it must be the responsibility of the DNO.

 

[Robin0577]

Surely if the problem is before the meter it must be the responsibility of the DNO.

You would think so wouldn't you but apparently not, I've actually lived in one property where they've denied responsibility for internal distribution cables and been involved in work on another.

 

[dazeruk]

Are you saying that the DNO has no responsibility for carrying out this work?

Both my supply company and the electrician I spoke to said that the DNO has responsibility for ensuring my supply is safe. Should I have to be paying for this work to be carried out myself?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Right, thanks.

I wasn't doubting you

I did post my question before I saw yours re. the maisonette.

 

[Robin0577]

I don't know what the general rule is or if there even is one, I can only go by the 2 experiences I've had.

First was a pair of purpose built maisonettes, supply entered through the bottom one, into a single phase cutout with two fuses, one feeding the lower maisonettes meter directly, the other a pair of tails in steel conduit to the upper maisonette with an iron double pole cutout adjacent to the upstairs meter. DNO denied responsibility for anything beyond the first cutout.


Second was a place I was doing some renovation work on and was an admittedly dodgy looking conversion. Main cutout fed a Ryefield, with SWA supplies to 3 flats from there, each with it's own cutout and meter inside the flat. We wanted one of the flat supplies moved and asked the DNO. They said "not our problem, that Ryefield aint ours"

 

[plugwash]

Yet I also find it hard to belive that the REC would have wanted customer owned and maintained cabling and distribution equipment before the meter. That would just seem to open up massive possibilities for stealing electricity.

I wonder if during the migration to split the electricity supply into DNOs, meter operators, retail electricity suppliers etc some stuff that was installed by the old REC (and perhaps not properly documented) fell between the cracks.

I'd certainly want the answer to what equipment the DNO and meter oeprator each claim to own to be put in writing before doing any work on pre-meter distribution cables.

 

[dazeruk]

Thought I'd post an update for those interested.

I rang the DNO today. I told them what had happened and they looked at the report sent back by the guy that attended on Saturday. He reported that there was no fuse neutral on the supply and no further action was needed. He even stated that he had inspected downstairs property where the supply enters which I know for a fact he did not do.

I stated that this information was not correct. The supply company guy had definitely declined the install of a new meter based on a fuse neutral being in place and even as a layman I could see that there was indeed fuses on both the live and neutral supply.

They have now booked an appointment for one of their mantenance team to attend. I think the first guy was from their rapid response team. I've been asked to send photos of the incoming supply setup to illustrate the current situation.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I've been asked to send photos of the incoming supply setup to illustrate the current situation.

We like photos too

 

[dazeruk]

I've been asked to send photos of the incoming supply setup to illustrate the current situation.

We like photos too

Here's a couple of photos

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• dazeruk
• 9 Sep 2013
• 1

Untitled

• dazeruk
• 9 Sep 2013
• 1

Does this look like a fused neutral situation?

 

[Iggifer]

definitely does, and those tails have definitely seen better days, to see the least

 

[JohnW2]

definitely does, and those tails have definitely seen better days, to see the least

Indeed. It obviously did once have a fused neutral, but I suppose there's no certainty that there is still a fuse on the neutral side, rather than 'a lump of metal'?

Kind Regards, John