Energy usage

[pcaouolte]

The question is, once you get the information, what will you do with it? Unless the info can save money or energy what's the point? Energenie do make a CT which can connect to my PC and record the time as well as power which is what the plug in device does, but can't see how it would save me more than £10 a year, so what's the point?

Agreed. For some items I have been able to save money by comparing consumption between various methods of achieving the same result. Lighting, drying clothes, ventilation versus dehumidification etc. I haven't tried to do it with cooking yet but, for the various reasons already discussed I don't expect it to be easy.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Agreed. For some items I have been able to save money by comparing consumption between various methods of achieving the same result. Lighting, drying clothes, ventilation versus dehumidification etc. I haven't tried to do it with cooking yet but, for the various reasons already discussed I don't expect it to be easy.

I've a gas hob, but despite gas being 1/4 the cost of electric, I would not consider it sensible to boil water on the hob, if it were water I needed. Likewise, the microwave is never used to heat just water. One thing I hate having to do, but sometimes just unavoidable - putting the oven on just to warm plates. My preferred option is to put plates on top of a simmering pan of food, though sometimes just not possible.

 

[robinbanks]

At the moment I'm looking to audit use to see why it's so high; what is using, when is it using, how much etc. perhaps I can shift things to night time and use an economy 7 type tariff, or spread the load out so that more of it happens in the day and solar panels can provide for it. I use 1000kwh a month, and the solar calculators I've used say that a 20kw array will produce 500kwh in winter so the question of how to maximise the payback means audit is quite relevant for me; 20kw is a comparatively huge array, yet it can't really make a dent in my current usage..

 

[StephenStephen]

I've a gas hob, but despite gas being 1/4 the cost of electric, I would not consider it sensible to boil water on the hob, if it were water I needed. Likewise, the microwave is never used to heat just water. One thing I hate having to do, but sometimes just unavoidable - putting the oven on just to warm plates. My preferred option is to put plates on top of a simmering pan of food, though sometimes just not possible.

I'll sometimes put plates in hot water to warm them ...

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

perhaps I can shift things to night time and use an economy 7 type tariff, or spread the load out so that more of it happens in the day and solar panels can provide for it.

Smart meters can provide every 30 minute precise consumption data. If no one is up and about using power during the night, they make is easy to see you base load. To make E7 worthwhile, you need to be able to make very good use of it, during the E7 period. Most households cannot do that, unless they have storage heating.

 

[robinbanks]

Yea, I'd even consider investing in battery storage that are charged on E7 if I could make a decent financial case for it. I could conceptually use a form of storage heating too if I charged a thermal store using an ASHP that would later run the UFH... or just make sure the UFH was charged up on E7 and let solar gain carry the temp through to evening

The monitoring I'm looking at is more fine grained than the smart meter could do; I could get bettter than 30 min precision with a raspberry pi and light sensor counting the pulses of the normal meter I have, and I have the components. Could probably ask ChatGPT to write the python script to do it too.. Just no interest in monitoring at that level then playing the "there was a large spike at 7pm, what might that have been?" game..

 

[ericmark]

putting the oven on just to warm plates

The point is we may not like cold food, but nothing wrong with eating the food after it has cooled down, I know cold tea in Hong Kong cost more than hot tea, but I prefer it hot.

And an air fryer may use less energy to a deep fat fryer, but the taste changes, same with micro wave cookers, etc.

We want to live, not simply survive, and be it a ride on a Steam train, or a trip to the sea side, we do use energy we could save, odd it seems all the narrow gauge steam trains in Wales, and there are a lot, use less energy than one 747 fight to USA.

 

[winston1]

In fact my CT setup also shows me the power factor.

How does that work then? To show the PF you need to measure current, voltage, and phase angle. A simple CT will not do that.

 

[SUNRAY]

How does that work then? To show the PF you need to measure current, voltage, and phase angle. A simple CT will not do that.

Certainly does as long as the meter is powered by the same ac supply.

 

[SUNRAY]

Maybe. I'm AMIEE. Interested to know about the many.

Sadly that means nothing these days, one company I worked for was about 50% IEE/IET and some of those weren't capable of lighting a match let alone do the stuff they were supposedly 'qualified' in. I have sufficient qualifications to mecome a member but quite frankly couldn't see the point of becoming/maintaining membership. Having worked in their Savoy Place lecture rooms as a non member tells me a story.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I have sufficient qualifications to mecome a member but quite frankly couldn't see the point of becoming/maintaining membership.

Quite right, it is just a commercial company, like many - there to make money. I considered AMIEE long ago, and discounted it.

I think, as we all know, he likes to make up his own rules anyway.

 

[pcaouolte]

How does that work then? To show the PF you need to measure current, voltage, and phase angle. A simple CT will not do that.

It isn't a simple CT. The system that I use gives me current, voltage and PF amongst other things.

 

[ericmark]

I was a member of IET but cost too much so dropped it, but does it matter?

OK the CT is only part of an energy meter, but in domestic it does not really need to measure PF or voltage, main thing is current and time.

I can clip on my clamp on and see current, but it does not log it against time. The meter given free with Scotish power I seem to remember measured time, but grouping all circuits together tells one very little.

Using the plug in type only works with items which plug in, but once you remove the plug in items, there is very little left.

OK as an electrician I could open my consumer unit and fit loops to measure each circuit, but what is the point? I can't think of anything I could do with the info to help save energy.

Using main cooker v plug in pressure cooker the latter will use less power as better controlled, but then it needs storing. And can't put it in a sink of cold water to open it, have to wait for it to cool, and as insulated that takes ages.

 

[SUNRAY]

I was a member of IET but cost too much so dropped it, but does it matter?

I got as far as filling in all the paperwork and sending it off before I really thought about: Why?

OK as an electrician I could open my consumer unit and fit loops to measure each circuit, but what is the point? I can't think of anything I could do with the info to help save energy.

In commercial installations I got to be pretty good at fitting CTs on every circuit in DBs, the big difficulty is keeping decent space them.

 

[robinbanks]

I can't think of anything I could do with the info to help save energy.

It's like tracking your spending; you get paid, and at the end of the month somehow there's no money left and you wonder where it goes. You keep a spreadsheet and see that it was car insurance time and they direct debited the year's amount or whatever; it explains it and then maybe you can do something about it, maybe you can't (do you need a car? Do you need it so regularly that pay-as-you-go insurance doesn't make sense etc)..

But you need to know where it's gone first?