extending kitchen radials advice

[cyndi]

some advice that im going down right route here,
kitchen has 2 radial circuits, 1x15mcb 2.5mm supplying one double outlet.
can i add a 13amp fcu to this using 2.5mm cable and fed a double outlet below work surface to feed fridge and cooker ignitor


and 1x 30mcb 4mm supplying 2x double outlet's.
both the 4mm radial outlets are right next to each other so i got 4 sockets in one corner ,so not much use to any one unless you can get all your appliances in one corner.

anyway going to move one of the 4mm outlets to other side of room with 4mm cable add the double outlet but want to add the washing machine into this .can i add a fcu into the 4mm radial as well

im in a flat and not got much appliances at present only the microwave ,fridge and toaster on 2.5mm and the kettle and w/machine on 4mm

 

[JohnD]

If you are in England or Wales this work is notifiable to your local council (or an electrician who is a member of a self-certification scheme can do the certificates himself). If you are in Scotland I think it will need a building warrant but I am not familiar with the process. If you do all the chasing and replastering yourself the wiring cost will be lower.

Not many kitchens have two radials.

Perhaps the 30A one was originally for an electric cooker and the 15A one for a socket. I deduce from these ratings that you have an old Fusebox/Consumer Unit and it may be old enough to need replacing. Is it Cream or Brown? Do the MCBs have buttons or switches?

It is useful to retain an electric cooker outlet as you or a future buyer may decide to go electric.

It is also useful to have the freezer on a separate circuit (not on an RCD) to reduce the risk of food spoilage due to a fault on a different circuit.

In a domestic environment it is preferable not to have sockets fed from two circuits in a single room. People will tend to assume that if some of the sockets have been isolated and are safe, all the others will be too.

The 2.5mm radial can be uprated to 20A max. Or if you can convert it into a kitchen ring, up to 32A.

If you are remodelling your kitchen you might consider having a socket circuit running all the way round the kitchen wall, 150mm above worktop height, with plenty of sockets, FCUs and switches for undercounter appliances in a neat row. This method is very economical on labour and materials.

If you are going to have a washing machine and tumble drier as well as a dishwasher and the usual toaster and kettle, you really need a 32A circuit as a lower one will trip. Do not put two heavy-load appliances into two sides of a double socket, give each large appliance its own socket, with a switch above the worktop where it is easily accessible. The number of sockets and FCUs you can install on the circuit is for your purposes practically unlimited as the floor space of the kitchen will be well within the maximum allowed to service from a single radial.

 

[cyndi]

johnd

yes i agree strange to have 2 radials,also i didnt mention that there is already a 30 amp supply for cooker fed from 100ma side of a split board its not an old board (wylex split board with 30ma and 100ma ),and has been inspected by council last year .i have just brought the poperty from them after paying rent for nearly ten years.

would love to put lots of sockets around but its all orignally in imperial steel conduit (but recently rewired by council),hence the reason of not converting to ring of putting more in than needed

thanks so far
steve

 

[breezer]

may i suggest that as its in conduit, you rip it all out (kitchen)


My reasoning

since you have brought the place i don't suppose you will be moving too soon.

you will always want more sockets (we have 12 in a what must be 12 x 10 kitchen)

no need to worry about getting an earth from conduit if you use 2.5 t & e

 

[JohnD]

You can extend a circuit that is already in conduit. The new part can be in oval plastic conduit which is easier to handle and does not need such a big chase. You may need a secure earth to be connected if the conduit was used as the earth conductor on the old part.

If you are remodelling your kitchen this is the ideal time to get the chasing done - you can replaster and paint for cheapness, or tile when funds permit. It will be a great pity to do a little bit of wiring now and need to do more later - the cost and disruption will be much greater..

You can even have sockets and cables surface mounted (preferably in mini-trunking which looks quite neat) which is the cheapest method.

 

[cyndi]

johnd
i was going to extend in 25mmm oval plastic anyway

there is already earths as all run in singles ,dosent use conduit as earth
could use mini trunking as sockets already surfaced mounted due to steel conduit

breezer
i dont expect to be here this time next year so trying to do the least possibale to sell

go http://www.cyndi.f2s.com/ for photos

thanks again

 

[securespark]

Is it Cream or Brown?

One of John's favourite questions!

Whatever you decide to do, make sure the 15A radial is wired in min. 2.5mm², and the 30A in min. 4mm².

You could, if necessary, upgrade the 15A radial to a 20A. I guess the kitchen is not miles from the board?

 

[cyndi]

thanks guys for all your help so far

yes the board is on a wall right opposite to kitchen door in hallway so not far

i'm in middle flat of a small three storey block have concrete floors and ceilings and buried steel conduit from c/u to all locations which is run in singles,so i thought this would be greif to convert to a ring in kitchen

my plan was to from exsisting 15amp radial double oultet come down to below work surface with 25mm oval plastic and 2.5mm t&e and then once below worktop line go horizontal with mini trunking to next socket up with 25mm oval again ,long way round i know ,or could just run mini trunking along horizontally to next if "she "will like it .

and the same goes for the 30radial but obvoiusly it would be in 4mm t&E

 

[JohnD]

you can chase into the wall, horizontally, above the worktop. No need to go down and up.

 

[cyndi]

i thought johnd that if you had to go horizontally that it had to be protected ie. in steel conduit or to a depth of at least 50mm

if this is not the case then that will make life easier or godown the mini trunk route as last option
your advice is appreciated

 

[MR-DIAZ]

As long as you go from point to point

 

[cyndi]

so point 2 point then in 25mm oval will be ok

great sounds like less work to me thanks fellas drinks all round

 

[JohnD]

25mm is a bit big for 2.5mm T&E. Take an offcut with you and see.

One of the (many) advantages of doing the row of sockets above the worktop is that it is pretty obvious where the cable has been chased in between them. It is also very economical in labour and materials.