Extension brickwork not lining up with existing house

[Mervster]

Thanks for the advice guys

He had laser levels out today to check his brickwork. I understand what you are saying woody I guess the dpc level could have been corrected if it had been seen that it was not level.

Not sure if it is relevant but our extension is on a slope. The damp course on the house is about 4 bricks above floor level. The damp course in the extension is about 1.2 meters above floor level. Possibly irrelevant but something to bear in mind.

The toothing in issue will be hidden by the down pipe on the extension so it won't be blatantly obvious. I know that doesn't make it right but I can't see that demanding corrective action now is really viable?

 

[cjard]

It's not a huge amount of work right now while the mortar hasn't cure, to take down the wall that doesn't align and put it in again so the courses align. As woody notes, you won't see the brickwork being slightly out of level. If you plan on a patio door anywhere then the bricks either side of it can be put in level in themselves but not aligned wih each other either side of the door; no one would notice, other than needig a half bRick to level the lintel up on one side

Go to screwfix and get one of these: http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dw088k-self-levelling-line-laser/38474
You can take it back for a full refund tomorrow.. Use it to check the bricks of the existing house. If they're out, then your builder is true in what he has said. If they're in, then probably the cumulative error woody mentioned caused by starting at one side and moving a short level around has occurred. If they're in, you could always give the laser level to the builder in lieu of one day's pay; as it will doubtless save him having this argument on future jobs..

Edit, just read your update that says he already has a laser level.. Should really have used it to highlight this issue at the start and agree what to do about it.

Only you will know whether in 5 years time you'll be sitting on your patio with your pimms fuming about these misaligned bricks peeping out from behind a downspout. I know I wouldn't be; too many other things in my head with family full of nutters, understaffed job and 4 building projects on the go, but everyone is different

 

[Mervster]

Thanks cjard

Your last paragraph has really made me smile.

Ultimately I know nothing about construction but I am very ocd and a bit of a perfectionist hence I tend to scrutinise on detail. I don't think I will give it a second thought when the work is all done, we've lived in a sixties house with original decor for the last 3 years so this extension brings the house into the modern era.

I will probably still buy the laser level though

 

[Nige F]

60's house ..... says it all really, mine is all over the place, in fact (unsurprisingly) the whole estate has quirks looking @ the brickwork. And a M8 who lives in one up the road has door frames where the head is 3/4 inch out of level ! They do have their advantages though compared to the crowded in modern ones, even if our solid internal walls are out of plumb

 

[wessex101]

Personally I don't like toothing in brickwork anyway. If it's a 1960's house the foundation to the extension is probably much deeper than the original house so you are likely to get some minor differential settlement. With a vertical joint that is not too much of an issue and easily made good, with toothed in brickwork it can be a right mess with cracking through the brickwork.

I have to agree with others that it appears the bricky has not checked the levels and set it out accordingly before he started. When building an extension, especially to an older property there are usually issues with existing walls being out of plumb or not level that have to be accommodated.

 

[stuart45]

As woody notes, you won't see the brickwork being slightly out of level. If you plan on a patio door anywhere then the bricks either side of it can be put in level in themselves but not aligned wih each other either side of the door; no one would notice, other than needig a half bRick to level the lintel up on one side

That would look wrong, especially when you take the facework over the top of the lintel.
What woody meant was you can get away with about 10mm in a 4 or 5 metre run, so if you ran the side flank down 10, maybe 5 along the back where the doors could be and another 10 down the other side you could sqeeze 25 or so out of it.
When walls run too far out of level it does make corners and reveals a bit more difficult.
You can tell when someone on the next corner is going off gauge when the line goes up.
If you see someone try and run a grunter out off the facework it normally shows up looking a mess.

 

[Mervster]

Guys, thank you for the advice

Layest update.
I called the builder today and stood him down from the job pending a meeting with me tomorrow morning.
He is repeating that they had no other option which is something the building inspector has echoed via an email to me today. My understanding is that if they had set out correctly in the first place we could have seen that it was going to be an issue before it was.

I see that there are two options

1. Hide the join utilising a down water pipe
2. Ask him to rip down 4.5 meters of wall and rebuild so the difference is built in over the course of bricks so it can teeth in.

He has said that the latter is not a good idea as the mortar lines will look odd and we will end up with a wall that is not level with the rest of the extension.

If the house is out. Is it wrong to make the new part wrong to accommodate this??

 

[^woody^]

Unless you are absolutely set on toothed brickwork, and only if you are certain that the builder can alter the wall as per above posts and blend it in, then I would refrain from knocking anything down.

Compromise and live with and/or disguise the misaligned end of the wall.

It's annoying when I see stuff like this, and always try to catch these cosmetic issues early on my jobs, but its not the end of the world. Stepping back a bit, my opinion still stands, but it is just my opinion, and I'd certainly not want you to fall out with the builder, and definitely don't knock stuff down unnecessarily.

Moving forward, if there are other things which may be important to you, then mention these to the builder and ask that they be confirmed before the stages of the build are commenced.

 

[Mervster]

Thanks Woody

I agree completely, most of my annoyance is that the deviation to the plan was not communicated to me or subsequently agreed it was just assumed.

I appreciate that things have to change, i will make it clear that if (in future) we have to do something different i am informed and agree before it happens.

Its early days on the build, there is a lot more in the spec that has to be done and no doubt other issues/comprimises that have to be agreed.

Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[^woody^]

Righty oh.

Please try and stay on good terms with the builder

 

[XtraRaptor]

It would be still interesting to put a water level on the brickwork and take a photo at each end.

Lasers and their operators are not infallible.

 

[SUNRAY]

It would be still interesting to put a water level on the brickwork and take a photo at each end.

Lasers and their operators are not infallible.

How refreshing to someone else has the common sense to recognise the inaccuracies in these devices which most people seem to think are perfect.
Last year I was snagged in a new building on levels of projectors which I'd tried to align with the uneven ceiling, I asked for a definitive reference and a laser was rigged by the main contractor. I then marked salient points on walls with their assistance, took and printed photos of the marks and attached them to theirs and my paperwork, re adgusted the projectors to line up with the marks (now the images didn't line up with the ceiling). The new snagging list highlighted the difference between the images and ceiling and ceiling fitters were recalled, their level varied considerably with the previous marks set by main contractors laser level.
Eventually I purchased 40m of 1/2" clear hose and showed the ceiling varied by more than 90mm over 30m. At that point I produced the previously agreed paperwork and quoted for 2 days work to re-align to whatever random levels they dictated, we settled on the water level as it was the only one which produced consistent, repeatable, results. I ensured that all parties signed the new pictures of the new alignment marks before I started work.

 

[Notch7]

Personally I don't like toothing in brickwork anyway. If it's a 1960's house the foundation to the extension is probably much deeper than the original house so you are likely to get some minor differential settlement. With a vertical joint that is not too much of an issue and easily made good, with toothed in brickwork it can be a right mess with cracking through the brickwork.

I have to agree with others that it appears the bricky has not checked the levels and set it out accordingly before he started. When building an extension, especially to an older property there are usually issues with existing walls being out of plumb or not level that have to be accommodated.

I didnt know anybody toothed in brickwork these days. In fact I thought building inspectors frowned on it, for the differential movement mentioned above.

A good bricklayer should be able to work out whether both sides of an extension woukd be able to keep in line and to gauge before starting and then explaing the options to the customer.

Im involved on a job at the moment, I worked out the brickwork setmout for an orangery on a house with an imperial gauge. The first bricklayer that the client had, told him he would only lay bricks to a metric gauge, as that was the 'proper' way to do it. Another brickie was employed to do the job and had no issues keeping exactly to the imperial gauge. I can see it could be a pain as the brick course would run out from the block work, but it can be done ok.