External steps come under permitted development?

[Edvard]

Hi all,

I've been searching for an answer to my question with no luck so far so I hope someone can clear this up for me.

I have had a planning application accepted to build a side extension to my kitchen. The propossed extension means I would no longer have access to my back garden via the side of the house. The idea was to put a french door where the existing window is. My house is built on a hill so overlooks other properties, and the rear garden is about 4 feet below floor level of the kitchen. The proposal was to have a small platform outside the door with some steps leading perpendicular to the house and down into the garden, but this was refused because of the overlooking factor. Because of this I now have approval for a door that opens to a 4 foot drop. I have spoken to the planners and they told me they would resist any balcony, no matter the direction of the steps leading from it, but the won't tell me if steps directly from the door would be ok because they aren't allowed to give advice.

The drawings have to be re-submitted without the balcony but I could really do with knowing if I can add steps or not before I do.

Any help is gratefully recieved. If I need to give more information, please just ask.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So how did you ever expect to get out of the new french door? Was this on the original application and removed at the planners request then in order to get an approval?

 

[tony1851]

I don't think a flight of steps would require planning permission - surely the top step would not be classed as a verandah.

 

[^woody^]

Steps don't need permission. Unless it's some sort of pyramid for a Pharaoh.

 

[Edvard]

So how did you ever expect to get out of the new french door? Was this on the original application and removed at the planners request then in order to get an approval?

Sorry for the delayed reply, but yes, the balcony and steps were on the original planning application which was approved "Notwithstanding the balcony". When I spoke to the planning officer she told me the reason it was refused was because it would increase the overlooking of the neighbouring properties (2 of them).

That is why i was curious about steps, because if I start descending as soon as I walk out of the door then it can be argued there is no increased risk of overlooking than from the already approved French door.

Thanks all for your advice, I will ammend the drawings and take it from there.

 

[wessex101]

Will Building Regs. let you have steps directly outside the french doors with no landing at the top?

I think the Planner is being rather silly about this. A 800mm wide landing at the top of the flight of steps is not a balcony. It is not big enough to sit on a summers evening drinking a gin and tonic watching the neighbour sunbathing so how could the overlooking be any worse than the french doors themselves or indeed any first floor windows if there are any.

To appease the stupid Planner you could offer to erect some screening?

 

[Edvard]

I offered to make the ballustrades (sp?) solid/opaque already but they point blank refused that. I'm in agreement with you wessex101. It all seems a bit petty to me, but it essentially renders my back garden unaccessible, without going out of the front door, then walking down the side of the house and jumping off another 3 foot drop. Madness. There are no 1st floor windows though, just to clear that up. The house is a split level bungalow.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think the Planner is being rather silly about this. A 800mm wide landing at the top of the flight of steps is not a balcony. It is not big enough to sit on a summers evening drinking a gin and tonic watching the neighbour sunbathing so how could the overlooking be any worse than the french doors themselves or indeed any first floor windows if there are any.

Though the next owner after the OP could be a smoker who stands on the landing 40 times a day to light up. That would be very pleasant for the neighbours.

 

[Edvard]

Hi all, so I asked the architect to redo the drawings and just put in some steps but he was adamant that a platform was required anyway and that the smallest we could get away with was 400mm if we used a bi-fold door instead of the (outward opening) french door. Having skim read the building regulations myself I couldn't see where this was stated but he is the professional so I took his word for it. (As far as I could tell, the internal floor counted as the landing so an exterior landing wasn't needed.) Anyway, he resubmitted the drawings and was told they would be refused also because of the same overlooking reasons as previously. I'm now completely confused and frustrated and struggling to get straight answers to my questions, especially as the planning department won't give out advice. if somebody could the following questions for me, it would be a great help:

1) I know you need planning permision for a raised platform, so at what point does a step become a platform?

2) Does an exterior staircase need planning permission?

3) if the answer to 2 is "No", then does the internal floor count as the landing, thus allowing me to comply with building regs?

Even if anybody can point me in the direction of the correct person to ask those questions to, I would be grateful. Thanks in advance.

Ed

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Sounds to me as though your existing plan (with the door to the side) is a non-starter due to the overlooking thing. From a usability point of view, having no landing at the top of the stairs would be horribly clumsy

Don't know what shape your house/garden is but is there scope to have the French windows opening to the rear (via steps/landing) into your garden. And how do you get into the garden now- is there a similar drop going on?

 

[Edvard]

I've tried to include a rough outline to help show what I am talking about. The blue outline is the property boundary. The black outline is the existing property and the red outline is the proposed extension (for which permission has already been granted). For extra clarity, the blue arrow is the direction of the downward slope of the hill, the black arrow is the location of the existing exit (to be retained) and the red arrow is the location of the new exit into the back garden, that I am hoping to get stairs up to. The drop from internal floor height to ground level at this point is about 1.6m.

 

[RichA]

How about some freestanding/'movable' steps made from timber decking type material?

 

[Edvard]

wouldn't that count as a raised platform and thus require planning?